Greece started as a land of contrasts, ie a state in the 18th and early 19th century, inhabited by many different tribes, each unique civilizations: Albanian populations in Epirus, the Ionian Greeks Romance, Jews in Thessalonica, Turks and Bulgarian speakers in Macedonia and so forth.
For the sake of stability, all differences soon disappeared and what was left was limited to Thrace: in the mountains of Xanthi are those we all know as Pomaks (i.e. Greek Muslims living in Pomachoria), while a little further south, towards the sea-a smaller and more particular community. That of the Black Greeks! Their existence remains unknown to the rest of Greece, their historical origin is a mystery. We looked for them and together we tried to solve the riddle of their origin ...
Just outside the city of Xanthi, in a group of neighboring villages, now lives in harmony with their white populations a small community of black Greeks. Fewer than 1,000 people living along the entire stretch of the county with an informal "head village" the Abato and a strong presence in the villages of Katramio, Eulalo, Dekarcho, Kremasti, Zyloti and Kyrno.
A lot have been said about their origin, but part of the editorial team of the magazine was sent to the region to hear their stories. Having come from a prior contact with the local municipality and residents of the villages, we began the journey to northeastern Greece: First we visited the village of Abato where we met local people at the local coffee shop, and then traveled to the neighboring Katramio where a family of black Greeks opened their door for us.
The Community of Black Greeks We already knew that black Greeks are living today in an organized active minority community, far from threatening or closed to themselves. Muslim by religion, with several mosques in the region, they insist at every opportunity that they are Greeks, but not forgetting their own customs which reveal their identity (if invited to a wedding, do not miss the opportunity).
With these thoughts we arrived at Abato, a few kilometers south of Xanthi. We entered the village and headed to the mosque, next to which people were waiting for us at a small cafe.
First we talked to Mustafa Etem, a Abato council member: "Just down tthe street is our village [meaning black people] we are not cut off from the rest of the villages. We are good people and never experienced racial problems with our white villagers." "We are ordinary people," agrees Ali Osman Aidi, a villager: "farmers and artisans who live quietly in this place."
Distant descendants from Sudan? Soon the conversation turned to their origin, unsolved mystery today still for the Greek historians. Ali hastened to discourage us from the beginning: "Only our grandparents knew about our origins. After so many years here that we have forgotten. "
After persistent questions another resident, Saiti Derol, answered describing what he remembers from the stories of his ancestors: "We have heard that the first blacks came here from Sudan during the First World War as mercenaries by the British. Infact recently, Sudanese students from Thessaloniki visited us, to know us. They said they want to open Sudanese consulate in the city and need our support (laughs). But we grew up here and live here. We don't any particular attachment to the Sudan."
Another black resident Raymond Rasim, who was sitting a little further has heard the same story roughly : "When the war ended, the beys of the area kept us here to work their fields. The Blacks they had brought then were not barbaric and evil people. If they were bad, they would have been driven them out and not give them work. "
Anthony Domprakis, a white council representative of the village sitting slightly further and who had helped us at the start of our investigation, confirm the ignorance of the residents: "Unfortunately there are no official records on the origin of these black people. No one knows officially. The good thing is that whites and blacks live in harmony. There is a mosque in Abato, and the few residents of black children learn both the Greek and the Turkish languages a the village school for minorities."
With these words (and having all of them politely refused to sit in front of the camera lens) we bade farewell to them and head to the nearby village of Katramio, whose name reveals much about black people.
From the slave-market of East ... There Salo Oglou Sali family were waiting for us and soon we were sitting in their living room full of smiles. Father and daughter spoke Turkish to us, even though they could understand every word they hear from us.
The same question was asked, but the same response came from Sali: "I always listened to our grandparents wonder how did we get here! Some say that we were sold in slave markets of the East and were bought as bodyguards because of our body formations, others that we were brought during the First World War by the British. So far, we have not found a clear answer for our origins. We always discuss about it but never arrive at any answer. "
Sali was very honest about their relationship with the rest of the Greeks: "Of course when some people see us they look at us curiously. Slowly they became accustom to us. After all, most marriages are often made between white and black. And when someone from us gets married to a white, we bet on who the child will resemble, whether it will come out black or white "(laughs).
Leaving behind the village of Katramio, our feelings were mixed. Since we did not find a clear answer to this historical mystery of Thrace, on the other hand, we got to know several of the few black Greeks of our country. Maybe their origin is not so important afterall since they've proven that being Greek is not so much related to genes, but with experience and how one feels ...
The "official" explanation
There are not many Greek historians that have dealt with the enigma of the black Greeks of Thrace, since not many people know of them. The exception is Nicholas Xirotiris, Professor of History and Ethnology, Democritus University of Thrace, who throws some light on this historical mystery: "It is known that in Thrace African tribes arrived in the late 18th and early 19th century. Transferred there from Egyptian sultans who wanted laborers and serfs on their land. Like Muhammad Ali [Pasha of Egypt and a native of Kavala], who owned places like Xanthi and Kavala, these Africans were brought mainly from Sudan which was then a colony of Egypt. " (Source: Ethnos newspaper, interviewed by Vangelis Botsari)
When Thrace was unified with Greece, these black people were (not being able to return home) living on the mountainous part of Thrace and naturalized as Greeks. "In the '40s," explains Mr. Xirotiris, "during the German Occupation, and because of persecution from Bulgarians in the mountains of Xanthi, they descended to the plains. Then, for the first time there were mixed marriages between Africans and Pomaks. "
dana marniche Member # 13149
posted
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I am surprised nobody saw this before:
Gypsies in Bulgaria get a lot darker than this. I don't know if these are Kalderash Sinti or some other group of Romany, but it looks like it. And they have been there for thousands of years.
Grumman Member # 14051
posted
What was the dance/festival celebrating?
Doug M Member # 7650
posted
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I am surprised nobody saw this before:
Gypsies in Bulgaria get a lot darker than this. I don't know if these are Kalderash Sinti or some other group of Romany, but it looks like it. And they have been there for thousands of years.
Cool. This is the first group of Gypsies I have seen that were so dark. But I am sure there are others.
The thing I like is the music and the the way the camera is moving showing a sea of faces.
Another video showing many of the same people at a wedding.
Here is the best example of dark white of rather recent AND OBVIOUS Negro ancestry - a person with light complexion and apparent descendant of recent mulattos (unlike the gypsies)that apparently doesn't want to acknowledge the possibility.
And I dare anyone to say she is not. Maybe somebody needs to remind Europeans of the recent presence of blacks in industrial and recent pre-Industrial Europe that led to people looking like Tom Jones, etc in Britain.
Probably more a mulatto than Charlotte was.
Charlotte the supposedly non-Negro descended "white Queen"
some people can run but they sure as heck can't hide. lol! I just don't understand why some of us hate ourselves so much.
jantavanta Member # 20328
posted
In French language, 'Charbon' means Carbon, which is black in color. The 'Char' in the name 'Charlotte' should indicate some one who is Black in color.
the lioness Member # 17353
posted Thracian king Seuthes III
Gypsies in Kazanlak
Bulgaria Kazanlak, Stara Zagora
Kazanlak, formerly Kazanlık (Bulgarian: Казанлъ̀к, alternative transliterations include Kazanlǎk, Kazanlāk, Kazanluk) is a Bulgarian town in Stara Zagora Province, located in the middle of the plain of the same name, at the foot of the Balkan mountain range, at the eastern end of the Rose Valley. It is the administrative centre of the homonymous Kazanlak Municipality. The town is among the 15 biggest industrial centres in Bulgaria, with a population of 49,506 people as of December 2009 The oldest settlement in the area of the modern-day city dates back to the Neolithic era (6th-5th millennium BOT). During the 4th-3rd centuries BOT the lands on the upper Tundzha river were within the dominion of the Thracian ruler Seuthes III and took an important place in the historical development of Thrace during the Hellenistic era.
PALESTINIAN
Doug M Member # 7650
posted
quote:Originally posted by dana marniche:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I am surprised nobody saw this before:
Here is the best example of dark white of rather recent AND OBVIOUS Negro ancestry - a person with light complexion and apparent descendant of recent mulattos (unlike the gypsies)that apparently doesn't want to acknowledge the possibility.
And I dare anyone to say she is not. Maybe somebody needs to remind Europeans of the recent presence of blacks in industrial and recent pre-Industrial Europe that led to people looking like Tom Jones, etc in Britain.
Probably more a mulatto than Charlotte was.
Charlotte the supposedly non-Negro descended "white Queen"
some people can run but they sure as heck can't hide. lol! I just don't understand why some of us hate ourselves so much.
For that matter you got folks all over Europe and the Americas with black blood who don't mind hiding those facts. Like the ones even during the times of the lynchings who were part of the crowd even though they themselves had the blood of melungeons, creoles and other forms of mixture with blacks.
Narmerthoth Member # 20259
posted
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: I am surprised nobody saw this before:
posted 
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I just don't understand why some of us hate ourselves so much.
