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It seems to me that the story is really about the invasion of Europe by North Africans which included Black Africans.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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To put it bluntly NO Lord of the Rings was not about Moors, however it did contain many allusions and references to such. The 'West' represented the good (white) men and elves and their allies while their enemies were bad men and other creatures. Make no mistake Tolkien was a 'man of his day' and did harbor racist views and notions when it came to non-Westerners and particularly peoples of color.
malibudusul Member # 19346
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When you say he was "man of his day"
You're protecting him He was a racist because he made this choice.
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^ Actually both Tolkien and his friend Lewis were devout Christians and were definitely not occultist. They just happened to use popular children's themes of fantasy and enchantment to convey Christian messages to children.
quote:Originally posted by malibudusul: When you say he was "man of his day"
You're protecting him He was a racist because he made this choice.
No. When I used that phrase I did so as a euphemism (hence the quotations) that yes he was a racist. I don't know what gave you the idea that I'm somehow "protecting" him. Protecting him from what? LOL Anyone who knows about Tolkien knows he was a racist. Yes racism is wrong, but it's a little more complicated than merely making a "choice". Racism and racist thought was a dominant and highly influential belief system of his time in the West among white people spurred on by faulty and now defunct science. Most racists and other ethnically prejudiced peoples became such through social conditioning or the way they were raised by family and their community. You and others may not hold that as an excuse, but it should at least be understandable. Now it would be different if the guy actually did harm to or even killed black people for instance. Thankfully it were those same Christian values that prevented such outright bigotry. The guy wasn't a bigot but he was obviously racially prejudiced and held certain views among people of color, oh and that included Asians as well as cited from some writings. Again considering the time period, such would be understandable.
Racism let alone racial bigotry today would NOT be understandable due to the huge strides made in anthropology and better understanding of human differences as well as corrections of Eurocentric bias. Which is exactly why racist thought is not dominant at all in today's society though still survives in vestiges among certain groups or individuals.
malibudusul Member # 19346
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Ironically it was his phrase. Right? No euphemistic
malibudusul Member # 19346
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Many people use this phrase to protect racist writers. So I thought you were doing it. Generally people are fans of a writer and do not want their favorite author is branded a racist then they say the person was a man of his time
implying that they were all racist in that time. This is not true There was opposition to the racist ideas at that time. __________________________________
I have not read the Lord of the Rings. I tried to see the movie but I slept I thought the movie very boring.
Ausar Amen8 Member # 20085
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The lord of the rings is a story taken from the teachings of the Zulu 'High Shaman' (or Sanusi in Nguni), these white people go to this man, get stories (Nguni and Bantu history, legends, myths)and then twist them into their movies and books. David Icke is one of those people, there are no lizard people discovered by him, instead the Nguni people in Mbulu, a mythical shapeshifting lizard human much like the so called reptilians. Read Indaba my children, Song of the stars by Credo Mutwa and you will see where the 'inspiration' of the Lord of the Rings came from. Same thing with Star Wars which also plays out a very Kemetic story.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ No. the story of Lord of the Rings was totally authentic and didn't come from anywhere else but Tolkien's imagination. But yes the story has many parallels with other epics including those in Africa, that does not mean he based it of that. In fact, because of his racism I doubt he knew anything about any African epics. Tolkien's myth expertise is limited to Europe only.
quote:Originally posted by malibudusul: Many people use this phrase to protect racist writers. So I thought you were doing it. Generally people are fans of a writer and do not want their favorite author is branded a racist then they say the person was a man of his time.
Well I don't. I call it like it is. 'A man of his time' simply meant like many white men of his day who were racist. I personally am not a huge fan of Tolkien. I read his books when I was in the fantasy phase of my childhood and I knew that his work was highly influential for folks like George Lucas and his Star Wars franchise. Other than that I don't idolize the guy.
quote:implying that they were all racist in that time. This is not true There was opposition to the racist ideas at that time.
I never said "all" white men at that time were racist, but many were. Racism itself is based on ignorance and false beliefs which were spurred on by scientific inaccuracies of the day. Of course there were people that were more enlightened and opposed racist ideas, it's just that Tolkien was obviously not one of them. LOL
quote:I have not read the Lord of the Rings. I tried to see the movie but I slept I thought the movie very boring.
I think one has to really be into fantasy and epics to enjoy it as that's the kind of story it is.
mena7 Member # 20555
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I also find lord of the ring a boring movie .Star wars was a good movie. According to Anthony Browder it was base on the story of Heru and Set .According to Jordan Maxwell Star Wars was a very occult movie with Darth Vador dress in black with a nazi helmet and a triangle in his mouth .The black robe of Darth Vador, rabbi,priest and judge was the symbol of the priesthood of Saturn .I dont know but it is possible that the story of the lord of the ring come from the Zulu Sanusi priest .The European are big time plagiariser .
Ausar Amen8 Member # 20085
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ No. the story of Lord of the Rings was totally authentic and didn't come from anywhere else but Tolkien's imagination. But yes the story has many parallels with other epics including those in Africa, that does not mean he based it of that. In fact, because of his racism I doubt he knew anything about any African epics. Tolkien's myth expertise is limited to Europe only.
quote:Originally posted by malibudusul: Many people use this phrase to protect racist writers. So I thought you were doing it. Generally people are fans of a writer and do not want their favorite author is branded a racist then they say the person was a man of his time.
Well I don't. I call it like it is. 'A man of his time' simply meant like many white men of his day who were racist. I personally am not a huge fan of Tolkien. I read his books when I was in the fantasy phase of my childhood and I knew that his work was highly influential for folks like George Lucas and his Star Wars franchise. Other than that I don't idolize the guy.
quote:implying that they were all racist in that time. This is not true There was opposition to the racist ideas at that time.
I never said "all" white men at that time were racist, but many were. Racism itself is based on ignorance and false beliefs which were spurred on by scientific inaccuracies of the day. Of course there were people that were more enlightened and opposed racist ideas, it's just that Tolkien was obviously not one of them. LOL
quote:I have not read the Lord of the Rings. I tried to see the movie but I slept I thought the movie very boring.
I think one has to really be into fantasy and epics to enjoy it as that's the kind of story it is.
Djehuti, I advise that you read Credo's books. This dude from Bloemfontein, South Africa stole the 'skeleton' of his story from local mythologies. These Dolby-like (the character from Harry Potter) creatures are based on the mythical "Bantu" entity called "utikoloshi". The Nguni interpretation of dreams for instance says that to dream of a blonde, blued eyed humanoid creature is an omen of evil or misfortune that will afflict one. This was said long before the coming of the Europeans. Maybe they, the Euros, simply resemble Nguni and Bantu mythical creatures the names of which whites are today called..."mlungu". The same is 'Mzungu' in the Swahili language.
malibudusul Member # 19346
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I remember I slept when I watched the second film. The Problem of the film is that it is very bad. The film is bad directed. The movie is too long. The camera shows the landscape for several minutes. bad script. Characters without depth. No charisma. All wrong.
I do not like Star Wars too.
Why are bad
But today I know that these films are racist and white supremacist. so I do not like.
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