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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djeshiti: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] [IMG]http://www.morocco-holidays-guide.co.uk/rabat/img/archaeological-museum-rabat.jpeg[/IMG] [URL=http://www.ephotobay.com/share/picture-24-15.html] [IMG]http://www.ephotobay.com/image/picture-24-15.png[/IMG][/URL][URL=http://www.ephotobay.com/share/picture-23-13.html] [IMG]http://www.ephotobay.com/image/picture-23-13.png[/IMG][/URL] ^^^ this is all the same bronze statue of Juba II, differesnt angles Moor (n.) "North African, Berber," late 14c., from Old French More, from Medieval Latin Morus, from Latin Maurus "inhabitant of Mauritania" (northwest Africa, a region now corresponding to northern Algeria and Morocco), from Greek Mauros,[b] perhaps a native name, or else cognate with mauros "black" (but this adjective only appears in late Greek and may as well be from the people's name as the reverse)[/b]. Being a dark people in relation to Europeans, their name in the Middle Ages was a synonym for "Negro;"[b] later (16c.-17c.) used[/b] indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India. [/QUOTE]Yes and absolutely no information on 'color' can be gleaned from this statue let alone whether the person portrayed was or wasn't black. Everyone in this forum except you knows by now that there are indeed Africans with wavy hair and narrow noses who have no mixed or foreign ancestry what so ever. [/QUOTE]I'm not sure that dana would agree that the bronze statue at the top of this post, the same statue from three different angles is depicting an African who does not have significant ancestry from outside of Africa. You assume that she and others think that and you are probably wrong in her case. Jari so far and you I have a link addressed to xyyman in this thread a list of Numidan kings names. look up some of the coins for them such as Juba 1 minted in Tunisia as well as Juba II and earlier Numidian/Mauretanian kings in google images search. _____________________________________________ [i] DUARTE BARBOSA, early 15c Portuguese author The Moors of Sofala kept these wares and sold them afterwards to the heathen of the Kingdom of Benametapa, who came thither laden with gold which they gave in exchange for the said cloths without weighing it. These Moors collect also great store of ivory which they find hard by Sofala, and this also they sell in the [Indian] Kingdom of Cambay at five or six cruzados the quintal. They also sell some ambergris, which is brought to them from the Hucicas, and is exceeding good. These Moors are black, and some of them tawny; some of them speak Arabic, but the more I part use the language of the country. They clothe themselves from the waist down with cotton and silk cloths, and other cloths they wear over their shoulders like capes, and turbans on their heads. Some of them wear small caps dyed in grain in chequers and other woolen clothes in many tints, also camlets and other silks. [/i] ____________________________________________ Here we have an author saying " These Moors are black, and some of them tawny" he didn't say "tawny moors" he said "Moors" and within "Moors" some are black others tawny so if another writer is looking at black moors and describes them as 'black as coal' or as 'dark as night' stereotypes that doesn't apply to all moors. We look to the etymology "Being a dark people in relation to Europeans" as today a person like my husband Barack Obama described as "black" as opposed to the insistance that Moor = "True Negro" and not accounting for the fact that people as far away form the equator as the San should not be expected to be as dark as Sudanese. _______________________________ Now look back to the Duarte Barbosa quote above from the 15thc. He is describing some moors as tawny. But he is talking about Sofala in Mozambique. I thought Moors were the people that invaded Iberia. So what are moors some of whom look tawny doing in of Mozambique?One of the oldest harbors documented in Southern Africa, medieval Sofala was erected on the edge of a wide estuary formed by the Buzi River (called Rio de Sofala in older maps). Sofala was founded about the year 700. The Arabs had frequented the coast since 915, followed by traders from Persia. back the etymology, used "indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) " The Europeans came up with the word and it's meaning was loose. Common factor here? The Arabs were in both coastal locations, the Maghreb and the East coast including far off in it's southern portion I prefer it to only apply to Maghrebians, particular ones. Well what about the Sanhaja who were confederated by the Almoravid based in Morocco. Didn't that extend down to the Sengal river? Didn't they invade Ghana, convert people to Islam? yes all that was mixed in. But before them the Muslims had already conquered Morocco and Spain under the command of the Mecca based Umayyads (haplogroup J probably) appointing Tariq Bin Ali a berber to lead the army. [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Umayyad750ADloc.png/250px-Umayyad750ADloc.png[/IMG] ^^^^ all this before the Sanhaja were integrated into the Muslim empire for use as soldiers , before the Almoravids invaded Ghana. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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