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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: It would be important IMO to also have the Y-DNA analysis of those ancient Iberomaurusian remains, not just the MtDNA side. There's none as far as I know (if you have them, post them). If we take into account the sex-biased genetic structuring and the heterogeneity of modern Berber, from the same region. It would be important to compare those with the Y-DNA analysis of those Iberomaurusian remains. From what I recall, Ancient Iberomaurusian remains certainly seem to have some Eurasian genes in them from a very ancient time, including European ones (mtDNA) from the Iberian peninsula. Iberomaurusian culture seems to be restricted to the Maghreb/NorthWestern African region. Usually, as mentioned by archeological literature, any geographical regions are inhabited by various populations and lineages even in those times (late paleolithic, early Holocene). Iberomaurusian have been preceded by Aterian (of African origin) and succeed by Caspian (of unknown origin). As often mentioned those are rough/crude categorization, possibly hiding intra and inter population diversity and the lack of archeological research. It's still very speculative. In archeological literature, it's also not clear if there's continuity between those various ancient archeological culture and any modern descendant populations or population replacement. Although imo, Iberomaurusian seems to be related to many Berber populations. We know Berber populations have a low nucleotide diversity and are example of sex-biased genetic structuring. Probably the (sex biased) interbreeding of groups from different geographical origin. At the very least, one basal Eurasian (MtDNA HUV) grouping, one basal African/East African (E-M215)/E-M81) grouping. Is it the same situation with the Iberomaurusian remains? It's hard to know without the Y-DNA counterpart. (I'm also interested to know **when** did the high level of "genetic drift" happened. We know Berber populations have a low nucleotide diversity and are example of sex-biased genetic structuring. There's also a high level of heterogeneity between various Berber population from different regions. With a very high level of East African basal E-M215 and a relatively high level of Eurasian basal MtDNA (HUV). So at the very least, 2 groups from different ancient origin met and interbreed with each other. There was also a strong genetic drift/founding effect. So the genetic structuring/composition we have now, was probably different at one point in the past. A founder effect before their arrival in North Africa, could explain the lack of genetic diversity. A small group of people leaving a larger group with only a fraction of the genetic diversity of the larger group. The high level of "genetic drift" could also have happened after their arrival in the Maghreb (conflicts, famine, diseases, other selective pressure, random genetic drifting, all of the above, etc). I'm not sure which one is more plausible. [b]So for me, it's not clear if Berber lost their genetic diversity before their arrival in North Africa or afterward[/b] ) [b]If anything, the study of Iberomaurusian remains MtDNA in the Maghreb, seem to confirm a very ancient female biased Eurasian descendant presence (MtDNA HUV) in Africa (possibly alongside African Y-DNA presence, judging by the Berber). There was probably other related or unrelated groups in the regions which will be possibly clarified with further archeological studies. The lack of archeological ventures in Africa will always limit any big picture analysis of Ancient populations. Archeologists and historians speculate with the little they have, which must always be kept in mind when we try to speculate on a full picture.[/b] [/qb][/QUOTE] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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