posted
I'm thinking of getting it, also on my eye is When we ruled by Robin Walker and the Futuh Al Habesha, so if anyone has read those I'd like some feedback. I was looking at this review for medieval kingdoms of nubia and it's really dismaying, the author doesn't give christian nubia enough credit for their accomplishments it seems:
quote:I read the initial 2002 print of 304 pages. (There are 8 color picture pages in addition to the many drawings and black and white pictures within the 296 text pages.)
This book gets severely detailed, utterly exhaustive (and to most tedious) in its descriptions of potsherds, graves, church architecture and other finds in the archaeological field. Unfortunately, the author doesn't get anywhere near that deep into the history, not to mention the life of the three some one millennium enduring Christian Nubian kingdoms of Makuria, Alwa and Nobadia, claiming that wouldn't be possible, as too little would be known yet. Hmm... The book is basically about the Christian times of Nubia and not really about the "pagan" and Muslim eras, as the title erroneously suggests.
The author seems to be caught in the general bias of not covering some issues. Unfortunately exactly the ones I am interested in and bought the book for. One is the beginning of Christian Imes (time) in Nubia, i.e. somewhat today's area of the country of Sudan. It is apparent that the established Western historians have an axe to grind not to state that these empires turned Christian too early - namely before Europe did. Christianity as an originally Black African religion seems to be not that comfortable. But somehow this book has to deal with certain facts. For example that Christian artefacts have been found in "too early" Nubian graves, "but there is no reason to think these had any religious significance". The flabbergasting reason according to the author: This would have been a pagan custom (to include valuables in graves) and the Christian artefacts are supposedly just Christian by coincidence, because the only interest would have been their material value. ??? I am amazed that the author generally refrains from interpreting anything to the point of writing rather nothing, unless something has to look differently than it appears, when it is to the detriment of his world view. My interpretation would be that the Christian grave artefacts represent the "missing link" from the previous branch of religion to Christianity, in a clearly Christian setting. Otherwise, there would have been artefacts of another religion. As if the Christmas tree and the Easter bunny would suggest to historians in the future that (some) European and American Christians would still be "pagan", because neither is found in the Bible, but in the previous branches of religion... The author is sure lacking any clue on how he came to his most unlikely of all possible conclusions.
The main reason I ordered this book for was to find out about the potential participation of the Nubian kingdom(s) in the crusades, which eventually let to their downfall. As it is EXTREMELY difficult to come by any information on this issue (if you know a source please leave a comment). To thwart any uncomfortable ideas, the author quickly claims, there wasn't any Nubian participation in the crusades. Even though archaeologically, close links to Byzantium and influences by Christian Egypt, Syria, Armenia (and Ethiopia) are listed. Again later in the book, there is talk of a Nubian ruler on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in 1203-04 who went on to Constantinople which was then under the control of the crusaders. Not even the name of that ruler is provided, nor of which of the three Nubian kingdoms he was the ruler. It is also not elaborated that those Constantinople-ruling crusaders had just arrived in a 4th crusade, which initially had been planned to go to Egypt, Nubia's Muslim-ruled neighbour to the north. Am I too way off to come to the idea that THIS may have been the reason for the Nubian king's "pilgrimage"? But: "Any cooperation between the Crusaders and the Nubians is inherently unlikely." Supposedly, because the crusaders were against any non-Catholic Christians as sick. Yet, again later, the author mentions the Venetian Marin Sanudo who in 1310 and 1320 drew up a plan for a Nubian attack on Egypt from the South. "Unfortunately", the Western help from the North wasn't given as planned. Or maybe the plan was not only to weaken the Egyptian Muslims, but to get rid of the rival and older Christian African Churches with the same stroke. I don't know. That's what I want to find out, by reading such books which I expect to answer these obvious questions. If not known currently, at least I expect not to get mislead by biased but unbased statements. By the way, the above mentioned 4th crusade against Egypt, which turned against Byzantium instead, was instigated by Venice, too. And the next crusade after 1310/20 was what may be called the 8th one against Egyptian Alexandria in 1365, this time instigated by Cyprus - with the fleet coming from, yes, you guessed it, Venice. All of this latter information isn't provided in this book as sick. When it comes to neutral issues, the author is all too happy to reference other sources with opposing opinions in the extensive footnotes. Not so for the two issues of this review. And yes, opposing sources do exist: Once, I have read one which very briefly mentions that like Ethiopia, the Nubian kingdoms were initially exempted from the jihad. But when the Nubians, unlike the Ethiopians, started to help the European crusaders, this decision was reversed.
The bottom line is: If you are interested merely in archaeology, this book offers state-of-the-2002-art information in the five-star category (translating into 4 stars for accumulated dust by now). If you look for anything else, this book is worth probably 2 stars only.
malibudusul Member # 19346
posted
i not read.
f u c k eurocetrists
HidayaAkade Member # 20642
posted
I have the book when we ruled, it's good but doesn't go in-depth about Christian Nubia. I would like to read about CN too (without the Eurocentrism).
typeZeiss Member # 18859
posted
If any of you come up with a good book on the history of the "Nubian" kingdoms from so called "Pagan" times to the end of the christian era, please let us know. I would love to read that myself. I would also be interested to know how much of the Christianity in that area was idiosyncratic with pre-christian beliefs.
posted
I have not read this one yet,but you could take look at.
Ancient Nubia: African Kingdoms on the Nile Hardcover – September 6, 2012
by Marjorie Fisher (Editor) , Peter Lacovara (Editor) , Sue D'Auria (Editor) , Salima Ikram (Editor) , Chester Higgins Jr (Photographer) , Zahi Hawass (Foreword) & 3 more
quote:
For most of the modern world, ancient Nubia seems an unknown and enigmatic land. Only a handful of archaeologists have studied its history or unearthed the Nubian cities, temples, and cemeteries that once dotted the landscape of southern Egypt and northern Sudan. Nubia's remote setting in the midst of an inhospitable desert, with access by river blocked by impassable rapids, has lent it not only an air of mystery, but also isolated it from exploration. Over the past century, particularly during this last generation, scholars have begun to focus more attention on the fascinating cultures of ancient Nubia, ironically prompted by the construction of large dams that have flooded vast tracts of the ancient land.
This book attempts to document some of what has recently been discovered about ancient Nubia, with its remarkable history, architecture, and culture, and thereby to give us a picture of this rich, but unfamiliar, African legacy.
second the book by wallace budge A History of Ethiopia: Nubia and Abyssinia
I have not read Budge's work on this one. But he is one of the fore most authorities still quoted on Egyptology. He is one of the first to translate the Kebra Nagast if I remember right. He was well acquainted with the history of the area.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
Salim Faraji: Book Reveals the Roots of Nubian Christianity
Salim Faraji, associate professor and chair of Africana studies at California State University, Dominguez Hills with his new book “The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered: The Triumph of the Last Pharaoh.”
Salim Faraji has been on a 25-year quest for answers to a transformation that took place more than 1,500 years ago. His findings led him to author the book “The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered: The Triumph of the Last Pharaoh” (African World Press: Trenton and London, 2012). In it, Faraji, associate professor and chair of Africana studies at California State University, Dominguez Hills, explores the influence that a 5th century Nubian pharaoh had on ancient Nubian culture and its conversion to Christianity.
“This king, Silko, is pivotal. He is like Constantine was in the Roman Empire. Constantine is really the emperor who makes Christianity the legitimate religion in the Roman Empire,” Faraji explained. “Silko does the same thing for ancient Nubia. … Silko is the founder of medieval Nubia.”
Faraji went on to say that after King Silko, Nubia—in what is now Sudan—became a Christian empire for a thousand years, from the 5th century A.D. to 1,500 A.D. Yet, scholars have disputed whether Silko was pagan or Christian. Faraji points out that epigraphic evidence discovered in 1819 seems to indicate that he was both.
Silko left a victory inscription in Greek on the Temple Kalabsha in southern Egypt declaring that he had defeated other Nubian kingdoms. Faraji recounted the declaration, “God gave me the victory.”
“So scholars are wondering, if this was a pagan king worshiping ancient Egyptian and Nubian religion, why did he say, ‘God gave me the victory’?” Faraji asked rhetorically. “It’s been a problem for 200 years, since this inscription has been discovered.”
Faraji contends that Silko’s kingdom has been largely ignored by early Christian scholars, church historians as well as Africanists and Africana scholars because the disparity between the two ideologies renders them contradictory and therefore unable to coexist. However, Faraji asserted that medieval Nubians likely used their ancient Egyptian Nile Valley religion to understand Christianity.
“I come along and I say, guess what, you’re both wrong… all you have to do is look at contemporary African Christianity today and you will see that the average Christian in Africa, when they become Christian that doesn’t mean they throw away their traditional culture. They still practice their traditional culture. They can be Christian and at the same time, still adhere to the customs, and traditions and rites of their culture.”
Faraji said the Nubians did the same thing. Their form of Christianity was no different than what we might see among Christians today in Ghana, Nigeria, Zimbabwe or Botswana—a synthesis of both African traditional religions and Christianity.
“As an undergraduate, I was stunned that the foundations of Christian theology and Christian history actually had its antecedents in ancient Africa, in ancient Egyptian, and Nubian civilization,” Faraji recalled.
Faraji said he felt compelled to share this story because, “It transformed my life. It really did. It turned me from a mediocre student to a student who pursued excellence.”
Faraji, who holds an M.A. and Ph.D. in religious history from Claremont Graduate University, began specific research for “The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered” while still a Master of Divinity student in 1996 at Claremont School of Theology. However, he became interested in the general subject earlier, while a junior at Pennsylvania State University.
“I’m probably 19 or 20. … I’m at this conference, an undergrad. [Rev. Cecil Gray], a Ph.D. student in African American Studies at Temple University, presents this paper on the Nile Valley origins of Christianity…, Early Christianity of Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, North Africa, which is where Christianity first emerged,” Faraji reminisced, adding that Gray was an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and later became his mentor. “And I was just stunned by this … it just ignited a fire in me.”
Just a few years later—in 1996, he met Ernest Tune, the former director of the Claremont School of Theology Library.
“I’m in the library …just hanging out, reading and … he came in. He said he just donated a collection on Nubian studies,” Faraji recalled. “He told me, ‘You should seriously consider making this the focus of your doctorate work. And if you do, you’ll be one of the few Nubian specialists in the country.’”
Salim Faraji studied the Nubia Museum in Aswan, Egypt as a Ph.D. student in 1999.
Tune was right. Today Faraji is one of only two Nubian specialists on the west coast, along with Dr. Tyson Smith at University of California, Santa Barbara. “The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered” is a culmination of Faraji’s dissertation and a hallmark of his expertise.
More than two and half decades of research, worldwide travel, collaboration with antiquities experts, and becoming versed in classical Egyptian (hieroglyphs), Coptic (the last phase of the ancient Egyptian language), and ancient Greek went into the writing of the book. It was an academic pursuit as well as a spiritual discovery.
“It wasn’t just a quest for piety, although that was a part of it; it was establishing the authentic historical record,” Faraji said. “I hope it inspires all Christians to take seriously the early Christian heritage in Africa. I also hope it inspires people to realize that the historical basis of all religious practice actually begins in African traditional culture.”
Faraji pointed out ancient Nubia not only spanned centuries and intersected with other African civilizations such as Egypt and those in West and Central Africa, but also ancient Greece, Rome, Byzantium, Islamic civilization and Indian Ocean cultures. As such, it has broad applications in fields such as philosophy, religious studies, archaeology, history, as well as Africana studies, to name a few.
“It makes it exciting for me because although it’s Nubia, it becomes a kind of springboard to global study, even to multi-cultural, multi-ethnic study,” Faraji said.
In October, Faraji will present findings from his book at the Cheikh Anta Diop Conference in Philadelphia (more than 20 years after he met his mentor Gray at the 1988 conference) and in March, at the National Conference for Black Studies in Indiana. He anticipates presentations at the American Academy of Religion and the African Studies Association in November and December.
Faraji is a member of the International Society for Nubian Studies. He specializes in early Christian history, Africana and Africanist historiography, Coptic studies and he Sudanic, Napatan, Meroitic and medieval periods of Nubian history. He is a contributor to the “Encyclopedia of African Religion” and the “Oxford Dictionary of African Biography,” and is the co-author of “The Origin of the word Amen: Ancient Knowledge the Bible has Never Told” and “The Plan: A Guide for Women Raising African American Boys from Conception to College.”
“The Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered” is available through the University Bookstore and Amazon.com.
Salim Faraji: Professor of Africana Studies Attends Gathering of Scholars of Nubian Studies at British Museum Faculty Staff News
Salim Faraji: Professor of Africana Studies Attends Gathering of Scholars of Nubian Studies at British Museum
Salim Faraji, assistant professor of Africana studies at California State University, Dominguez Hills, attended the 12th Annual International Conference for Nubian Studies in August at the British Museum and presented his findings on “Africana Nubiology: Examining Classical Sudanese Traditions in West Africa.”
“Ancient Sudanic civilization extended as far as West Africa,” says Faraji. “You can still see some of these cultural traditions in West Africa today. One is the building of sacred mounds on the palaces of royalty. I’ve seen these mounds in northern Ghana and other traditions that I can pinpoint as emerging in both ancient Nubia and West Africa.”
As one of only two Nubiologists on the West Coast – the other being Dr. Stuart Tyson Smith at the University of California, Santa Barbara – Faraji says that although Nubia has traditionally taken a back seat to ancient Egypt in terms of mainstream academic interest in the United States, more grassroots scholarship on ancient Nubia among African American intellectuals and historians has taken place beginning in the early 20th century.Salim Faraji (at far left) met a cadre of world-renowned - and few and far between - scholars of Nubiology at the 12th Annual International Conference for Nubian Studies at the British Museum
“In African American popular culture, there is the idea that Nubia is the ancient, pristine land and the original home of African people,” says Faraji. “Nubia was [a study] that emerged through historians like William Leo Hansberry, a pioneer in African and African American history. He was the first to teach African civilizations and African history courses here in the United States in the 1920s and 1930s before African civilizations was even a topic of study.”
Faraji says that Nubia shares a place with ancient Egypt as “a classical African civilization.”
“It is to the rest of Africa, what Greece and Rome were to the rest of Europe,” he points out. “It was a contemporary society [alongside] Egypt, one that influenced Egypt and was also influenced by Egypt. In terms of Pharaonic civilization, it is older than Egypt and lasted longer than Egypt. It is because of [these facts] that Nubia has become more of a focal point.”
Faraji says that he is grateful for the support that enabled him to attend the conference from the department of Africana studies and of his church, Christ Our Redeemer African Methodist Episcopal Church in Irvine, where he serves on the ministerial staff. He says that his work with the church enhances his ability to have “more sensitivity and compassion for the human needs of [my] students.” He also says that the highlight of his time at the conference was meeting leading Nubian scholars from around the world and networking with what is still an exclusive community of expertise. He hopes those connections benefit his students in the future.Salim Faraji with Stephen Quirke, curator of the Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology in London
“The connections that I made at this conference are just incredible,” says Faraji. “One of the things I want to do in the future is take students to the Sudan and to southern Egypt for study tours as well as to participate in archaeological excavations. I made that much closer to being a reality by meeting all of these key people. It is an awesome opportunity for students here at CSU Dominguez Hills for me to have access to these types of resources and relationships.”
Faraji is currently at work on a book titled, “The Last Pharaoh: Roots of Nubian Christianity Uncovered; Religion and Cultural Encounter in Late Antique Africa,” which focuses on the cultural transformation that occurred with the conversion of ancient Nubia to Christianity between the 4th and 6th century AD and the establishment of three medieval kingdoms that lasted from approximately the fifth century AD until the 1500s.
For more information on Africana studies at CSU Dominguez Hills, click here.
- Joanie Harmon
Photos above: Salim Faraji (at far left) met a cadre of world-renowned - and few and far between - scholars of Nubiology at the 12th Annual International Conference for Nubian Studies at the British Museum last summer. L-R, in foreground: Faraji, David N. Edwards, professor of Nubian archaeology, University of Leceister; Derek A. Welsby, curator of Egyptian & Nubian Antiquities, British Museum; Necia D. Harkless
Salim Faraji with Stephen Quirke, curator of the Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology in London
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Medieval Nubia: A Social and Economic History -
Giovanni R. Ruffini - 2012 - History
__________________________________ Leiden University Institute for Area Studies (LIAS)
Publication: Nubian Voices, Studies in Christian Nubian Culture
Adam Łajtar, Jacques van der Vliet, ed. (2011)
quote: Apart from publications of individual texts or groups of texts, this is the first collection of essays devoted solely and purposely to the literary culture of Christian Nubia. The study of the history and culture of Nubia between about 500 and 1500 has traditionally known a strong focus on the archaeological record.
This book throws light in particular upon the religious culture, the history and the foreign relations of medieval Nubia as well as the Old Nubian language. Read the book description for more information or see the table of contents.
Publication
Adam Łajtar, Jacques van der Vliet, ed., Nubian Voices: Studies in Christian Nubian Culture. The Journal of Juristic Papyrology Supplements, vol. XV. Warsaw: Raphael Taubenschlag Foundation, 2011. XVI+262 pp. ISBN 978-83-925919-4-8.
_______________________________
G. Ochała, Chronological Systems of Christian Nubia
quote:
It has long been known that Christian Nubia used several dating methods, yet only one of them, the lunar calendar, drew scholars’ more detailed attention. The present book is the first comprehensive analysis of all attestations of counting time in medieval Nubia known to date. It discusses nine different aspects of keeping track of time, divided into two parts: ‘Annual dating methods’ and ‘Calendars’. The author on the one hand concentrates on indicating possible directions of influence that governed the use of particular dating methods in Nubia and on the other tries to prove the Nubians’ own inventiveness in this field. Each chapter is supplied with a set of tables and maps faciliating the comprehension of the collected material. The book should be used together with an on-line resource for textual sources from Christian Nubia, ‘The Database of Medieval Nubian Texts’, to be launched in October/November 2011 at http://www.dbmnt.uw.edu.pl/
quote: Banganarti is a small village in Sudan, about half way between the third and fourth cataract of the Nile. It is situated 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) from Old Dongola, the capital of Makuria. Banganarti was an important Christian pilgrim center; the remains of a substantial medieval church are near the village (18.166736,30.784785). The large church in Banganarti was excavated by a Polish team of archaeologists in 2001. There are two successive church buildings, dating to the seventh century and the eleventh centuries. In the buildings there were several grave systems. The building is decorated with high quality murals. One of the world's oldest images of the Virgin Mary has been found in the Lower Church.[1] Undecorated walls are covered with inscriptions in the Greek language, Old Nubian language or a mixture of both. The inscriptions mention a few so far little Nubian kings and other important persons, such as a queen mother, making them of historic importance. The latest inscriptions date to circa 1350, after which, the church seems to have been abandoned.
____________________
quote:
world council of churches
Christianity, African Religion and African Medicine Gordon L. Chavunduka
Early European Christian missionaries tried to destroy African religion and African medicine. Many African traditional religious rites and rituals were regarded as against the Christian faith and morals. It was also believed that African religion promoted the belief in witchcraft and encouraged people to worship their ancestors instead of worshiping God. African medicine was regarded as unscientific and some of its treatment methods were considered anti-Christian. Traditional healers were regarded as heathens because of their participation in African Traditional Religion. Thus, Africans who became Christians were discouraged by the church from taking part in African traditional religious rituals and from consulting traditional healers. This attempt to destroy African religion and medicine has not succeeded. Many African Christians have continued to participate in traditional religious rituals; they have also continued to consult traditional healers. In other words, many African Christians have dual membershipCmembership in the Christian church and membership in African religion.
It is difficult to separate African medicine from African religion. There are two main reasons for this. Firstly, the African general theory of illness is very broad; it includes African theology. In other words, the theory not only attempts to explain illness and disease but also the relations between God and the niverse. The second reason, related to the previous one, is that many traditional healers are also religious leaders and vice versa.
The traditional medical sector has continued to grow despite the attempts by early Christian missionaries and others to suppress it; and it has continued to grow because traditional healers are successful in curing a large number of illnesses. Traditional healers use both scientific and non-scientific or subjective knowledge. Scientific medicines are obtained mainly from plants. Many plant medicines recommended by traditional healers are correct even when judged by modern scientific methods. This empirical knowledge has been developed through trial and error, experimentation and systematic observation over a long period of time. The major sources of non-scientific or subjective knowledge are the various spirits believed to play a part in health. The social and psychological methods of treatment developed from this unscientific base often bring good results.
Participation in traditional religions is increasing. The point that was often made by early Christian leaders that many African religious rites and rituals and many of their cultural practices are against Christian faith and morals is, in fact, not correct. In recent years a number of African scholars have shown that many traditional practices that Christian churches eliminated or tried to eliminate were not, in fact, against Christian faith and morals. African religion does not encourage belief in witchcraft; it merely accepts the fact that witches exist in Africa. Witches are regarded as sinners and it is the duty of religious leaders to talk about witchcraft and to attempt to discourage its practice. African religion does not encourage people to venerate their ancestors instead of worshiping; members of African religion talk to their ancestors but worship God. African religion says, God is for everyone everywhere. God takes very little interest in the day-to-day affairs of individuals. God is not concerned with purely personal affairs but with matters of national and international importance. The ancestral spirits, on the other hand, are concerned with the day-to-day affairs of their descendants. They are the intermediaries between the living and God. People pray to God through their ancestors.
Many Africans who became Christians found it difficult to abandon their religion and medicine completely. Christian conversion was, therefore, shallow; it did not always change the African people's understanding of life and their relationship to their ancestral spirits and God.
The way forward for the Christian church is to examine carefully African religion and medicine and other cultural aspects, with a view to identifying clearly those practices that are not against Christian faith and morals and incorporate them into modern medicine and Christian worship; if possible, the should also try to find a way out of what are considered non-Christian rites and other cultural practices. A few Christian churches are already doing this.
There is a need for dialogue between the leaders of Christian churches and the leaders of African religion and medicine. Unplanned interaction might continue to create new problems, misunderstandings and conflict. The need is for sound and genuine dialogue, involving negotiations whenever necessary.
Prof. Gordon L. Chavunduka is president of the Zimbabwe National Traditional Healers' Association.
Religion Today, Nubians practise Islam. To a degree, Nubian religious practices involve a syncretism of Islam and traditional folk beliefs. In ancient times, Nubians practised a mixture of traditional religion and Egyptian religion. Before the spread of Islam, many Nubians were adherents of Christianity. Ancient Nepata was an important religious centre in Nubia. It was the location of Gebel Barkal, a massive sandstone hill resembling a rearing cobra in the eyes of the ancient inhabitants. Egyptian priests declared it to be the home of the ancient deity Amun, further enhancing Nepata as an ancient religious site. This was the case for both Egyptians and Nubians. Egyptian and Nubian deities alike were worshipped in Nubia for 2500 years, even while Nubia was under the control of the New Kingdom of Egypt. Nubian kings and queens were buried near Gebel Barkal, in pyramids as the Egyptian pharaohs were. Nubian pyramids were built at Gebel Barkal, at Nuri (across the Nile from Gebel Barkal), at El Kerru, and at Merroe, south of Gebel Barkal. ++++++++++++++++++
By 543 A.D .The Nubians were officially Christian. It seems that their Christianity was never more than a thin veneer atop their ancient native religions and that it was only maintained by a foreign elite of priests and governors. The Nubians nevertheless remained officially Christians for almost a millennium.
The region had been Christian for less than a century when the Arab armies invaded Egypt in 640 A.D.One year later these armies reached Aswan, where the Islamic tide was stemmed, and the first cataract remained the southern frontier of Islamic Egypt and the northern frontier of Christian Nubia for several centuries. During medieval times Christian Nubia flourished. It was united under the King of Makuria and enjoyed a "Classical Christian " period between 850 and 1100 A.D ________________ quote After overrunning Byzantine ruled Egypt and giving the Coptic Christian population the choice Islam, death or Jizya, the Muslim armies attempted to penetrate deeper into East Africa then known as Nubia. At the time of the Muslim invasion in 642 C.E., the ancient kingdom of Nubia stretched from the south of Egypt (from Aswan) to Abyssinia, and from the Red Sea to the Libyan desert. The Nubians were Christians with a strong element of pre-Christian pagan beliefs, and were ruled by kings who had zealously guarded their freedom from their Byzantines who were their Christian co-religionists.
quote:
world council of churches
Christianity, African Religion and African Medicine Gordon L. Chavunduka
Early European Christian missionaries tried to destroy African religion and African medicine. Many African traditional religious rites and rituals were regarded as against the Christian faith and morals. It was also believed that African religion promoted the belief in witchcraft and encouraged people to worship their ancestors instead of worshiping God. African medicine was regarded as unscientific and some of its treatment methods were considered anti-Christian. Traditional healers were regarded as heathens because of their participation in African Traditional Religion. Thus, Africans who became Christians were discouraged by the church from taking part in African traditional religious rituals and from consulting traditional healers. This attempt to destroy African religion and medicine has not succeeded. Many African Christians have continued to participate in traditional religious rituals; they have also continued to consult traditional healers. In other words, many African Christians have dual membershipCmembership in the Christian church and membership in African religion.
It is difficult to separate African medicine from African religion. There are two main reasons for this. Firstly, the African general theory of illness is very broad; it includes African theology. In other words, the theory not only attempts to explain illness and disease but also the relations between God and the niverse. The second reason, related to the previous one, is that many traditional healers are also religious leaders and vice versa.
The traditional medical sector has continued to grow despite the attempts by early Christian missionaries and others to suppress it; and it has continued to grow because traditional healers are successful in curing a large number of illnesses. Traditional healers use both scientific and non-scientific or subjective knowledge. Scientific medicines are obtained mainly from plants. Many plant medicines recommended by traditional healers are correct even when judged by modern scientific methods. This empirical knowledge has been developed through trial and error, experimentation and systematic observation over a long period of time. The major sources of non-scientific or subjective knowledge are the various spirits believed to play a part in health. The social and psychological methods of treatment developed from this unscientific base often bring good results.
Participation in traditional religions is increasing. The point that was often made by early Christian leaders that many African religious rites and rituals and many of their cultural practices are against Christian faith and morals is, in fact, not correct. In recent years a number of African scholars have shown that many traditional practices that Christian churches eliminated or tried to eliminate were not, in fact, against Christian faith and morals. African religion does not encourage belief in witchcraft; it merely accepts the fact that witches exist in Africa. Witches are regarded as sinners and it is the duty of religious leaders to talk about witchcraft and to attempt to discourage its practice. African religion does not encourage people to venerate their ancestors instead of worshiping; members of African religion talk to their ancestors but worship God. African religion says, God is for everyone everywhere. God takes very little interest in the day-to-day affairs of individuals. God is not concerned with purely personal affairs but with matters of national and international importance. The ancestral spirits, on the other hand, are concerned with the day-to-day affairs of their descendants. They are the intermediaries between the living and God. People pray to God through their ancestors.
Many Africans who became Christians found it difficult to abandon their religion and medicine completely. Christian conversion was, therefore, shallow; it did not always change the African people's understanding of life and their relationship to their ancestral spirits and God.
The way forward for the Christian church is to examine carefully African religion and medicine and other cultural aspects, with a view to identifying clearly those practices that are not against Christian faith and morals and incorporate them into modern medicine and Christian worship; if possible, the should also try to find a way out of what are considered non-Christian rites and other cultural practices. A few Christian churches are already doing this.
There is a need for dialogue between the leaders of Christian churches and the leaders of African religion and medicine. Unplanned interaction might continue to create new problems, misunderstandings and conflict. The need is for sound and genuine dialogue, involving negotiations whenever necessary.
Prof. Gordon L. Chavunduka is president of the Zimbabwe National Traditional Healers' Association.
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Long Pilgrimages Revealed in Ancient Sudan Art | Medieval Churches & Banganarti & Selib
Long Pilgrimages Revealed in Ancient Sudan Art Owen Jarus, LiveScience Contributor Date: 03 November 2011 Time: 08:33 AM ET A 3-D reconstruction of the upper church at Banganarti. Built almost 1,000 years ago this medieval church was one of two that archaeologists excavated at the site. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
Excavations of a series of medieval churches in central Sudan have revealed a treasure trove of art, including a European-influenced work, along with evidence of journeys undertaken by travelers from western Europe that were equivalent to the distance between New York City and the Grand Canyon. A visit by a Catalonian man named Benesec is recorded in one of the churches, along with visits from other pilgrims of the Middle Ages, according to lead researcher Bogdan Zurawski of the Institute of Mediterranean and Oriental Cultures of the Polish Academy of Sciences. The discoveries were made at Banganarti and Selib, two sites along the Nile that were part of Makuria, a Christian kingdom ruled by a dynasty of kings throughout the Middle Ages.
The art there tells stories of kings, saints, pilgrims and even a female demon, said Zurawski, who presented his findings recently at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. Inside medieval churches Zurawski said the most recent of the churches uncovered in Banganarti, built nearly 1,000 years ago, is unique. "It has no parallel in Nubia and elsewhere," he said. [See images of Banganarti church discoveries] The church contains 18 square rooms, two staircases and, at its center, a domed area that probably contained holy relics. The team believes the building was dedicated to the archangel Raphael and was used for healing rituals. "The multitude of inscriptions addressed to this archangel are more than suggestive" that the church was dedicated to him, Zurawski said. Beneath this building lies a structure, built about 300 years earlier, which also appears to have been dedicated to Raphael.
This lower church, as the archaeologists refer to it, contains a ninth-century mural depicting "the Harrowing of Hell," which shows Jesus visiting the underworld to rescue the firstborn. [See images of the lower church]
A Catalonian journey The team uncovered numerous inscriptions at the two sites, many left by pilgrims visiting the churches in hopes of being healed.
The team uncovered numerous inscriptions at the two sites, many left by pilgrims visiting the churches in hopes of being healed.
One of the inscriptions at Banganartiis written in Catalonian and appears to have been inscribed sometime in the 13th or 14th century by the man named Benesec. It reads: "When Benesec came to pay homage to Raphael." Zurawski told LiveScience that "Benesec" was a very popular name in 13th- and 14th-century southern France. This particular Benesec had probably traveled some 2,300 miles (3,700 kilometers) from southern France or northern Spain. The journey took him east across the Mediterranean Sea and far up the Nile into the interior of Africa.
In addition to the monograms of Raphael, a prayer to the archangel, written by a King Zacharias, was found inscribed in the ruins near Banganarti. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
The inscription and a Catalonian playing card found downriver by another team, which may or may not have been left by Benesec, were the only traces found of these visitors from Europe.
Zurawski said Benesec may have been a trader who, along with other Catalonians, received permission from the Mamluk rulers of Egypt to pass through their territory. "The Catalonians were granted trade privileges, trade rights, to exchange goods and to trade with Egypt, and apparently they also came to Nubia," he said.
Krzysztof Grzymski, a curator at the Royal Ontario Museum, said at the symposium that evidence of contact between central Sudan and the Mediterranean world goes back to antiquity. At the site of Meroë, which reached its peak around 2,000 years ago, Grzymski said, he studied the sculpture of a head that has Greek traits. "This head is clearly Hellenistic or Hellenized, and yet it certainly was made by local artists from Meroë."
The Harrowing of Hell The team uncovered numerous works of art at Banganarti, among them the ninth-century painting of "the Harrowing of Hell." "The masterpiece of lower-church painting, decoration, is this 'Harrowing of Hell'; it is absolutely unusual," said Zurawski. It shows "Jesus Christ just descended to hell to trample Hades, liberating the firstborn, who are shown naked. Also, the common dead are shown naked." The dead are also shown in anguish. "The common dead [are] screaming, crying with outstretched fingers," said Zurawski. He said that the emotion of the dead, and the depiction of them and the firstborn being naked, were very odd.
The common dead are shown in agony in this medieval artwork. The emotion they display, and the fact that they, along with the first born, are naked, suggest that this painting may have had a European artist. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
"That is purely a European way of inscribing the Harrowing of Hell," he said. "In Byzantine tradition, the firstborn and the dead in the harrowing scene are shown in stiff hieratic postures, totally clothed."
King David … of Nubia There are many other features of art and architecture at these two holy sites. Banganarti contains several images of kings, most of them anonymous because of the lack of an accompanying inscription. However, one exception shows a 13th-century ruler known as King David, possibly named after the biblical figure. An inscription, found nearby, reads: "O God of Michael [or "O Saint Michael"], cause Arouase to live through the savior of King David." Arouase appears to be a reference to a person. Another work of art is an image of St. Damianos, a third-century physician who, with his brother Cosmas, practiced in Cilicia in southeastern Turkey. They were known asanargyroi, doctors who treated patients for free. During a series of Christian persecutions brought about by the Roman Emperor Diocletian, they were rounded up, tortured and beheaded.
Zurawski said the saint appears to have been held in particularly high regard at this site. For instance, one inscription mentions a wealthy person named Teita who came to Banganarti to mark Damianos' life.
The church image of Damianos' brother did not survive. A female demon The artwork is rich in both religious and mythological lore. For instance, at the same church the team discovered a depiction of Sideros, a female demon, naked and bound up while being trampled by St. Abbakyros, a medical saint, on a horse.
Another image found in the lower church is that of the female demon Sideros, shown bound and naked, being trampled on by St. Abbakyros, a medical saint. In medieval mythology Sideros is said to prey on pregnant mothers and newborn children. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski Sideros in medieval mythology was a demon that preyed on women during childbirth. Another scene at Banganarti depicts the legend of a third-century Roman soldiernamed Mercurius who converted to Christianity and was executed for it. "The Passio recounts that Mercurius lived under the emperors Decius and Valerian. ... He saw in a vision an angel who presented him with a sword, promising him victory and telling him not to forget his God," writes Christopher Walker in the book "The Warrior Saints in Byzantine Art and Tradition" (Ashgate publishing, 2003). (Passio is a Latin word for passion.) When he refused the emperor's invitation to make an offering to Artemis, Mercurius refused, professing his new faith. He was tortured and killed. According to the picture discovered at Banganarti, Mercurius reappeared as a sort of spirit almost 100 years later, after Christianity had been declared legal throughout the Roman Empire.
At the time Rome had an emperor, Julian, who made offerings to the old Roman gods instead of observing Christian rites. The emperor was campaigning in the Middle East against the Persians when, according to legend, Mercurius appeared and stabbed him with a spear, killing him.
"On the south wall [at Banganarti there is] a very interesting mural representing Saint Merkurios killing Emperor Julian the Apostate," said Zurawski. An image of the praying Virgin Mary is also shown in the scene.
A blind visitor Another interesting image is that of an apparently blind individual who visited Banganarti in hopes of a cure, possibly because the church was dedicated to the archangel known to be a patron of the blind. "One of the ophthalmological patients who came to Banganarti with eye problems was not Christian but was Muslim," Zurawski said. His name was written as "Deif Ali," Arabic for "Ali the guest." In a drawing of him in the church, he is shown with a walking stick and what looks like a bag. He wears a kilt-like dress and appears to be struggling to get his footing right. “His blindness is shown in the way he was painted,” said Zurawski.
Selib A few miles to the east of Banganarti is Selib, which holds four churches, built one on top of the other. They date from the sixth century, a time when people in Nubia were beginning to convert to Christianity, and the buildings were in use throughout the Middle Ages. [See images of medieval church Selib]
There are also remains of Meroitic columns and reliefs dating to around 2,000 years ago, when the city of Meroë was the center of an empire that stretched from southern Egypt to central Sudan.
Work at the site began in 2008 and resumed, after a brief hiatus, in 2010. Much remains to be done, but the team already has unearthed some interesting finds, among them a baptistery dating back nearly 1,500 years.
The team also found an inscription that indicates that one of the churches was built by a seventh-century king named Zacharias. It reads, "Zacharias basileus Mena hagios," which means that the king dedicated the church to St. Mena, a third-century Egyptian hermit.
Nearby, the team encountered an intriguing mystery. The archaeologists excavated a well and found the bottom to be beautifully decorated.
"At the depth of 5 meters, the regular bond of brick, the so-called English bond, is interrupted," said Zurawski during his museum lecture. In place "a zig-zag pattern made with oven-fired bricks" appears.
"There is no technical, structural reason for such a changing of the pattern of the brick. The only reason is aesthetical, but what aesthetics stand for in a well at the depth of five meters, I cannot ascertain," he said.
Only a few miles east of Banganarti, the inhabitants apparently decided that even the bottom of a well should be beautiful.
posted
Christianity and Monasticism in Aswan and Nubia * by * Gawdat Gabra (Editor), * Hany Takla
Overview Christianity and monasticism have flourished along the Nile Valley in the Aswan region of Upper Egypt and in what was once Nubia, from as early as the fourth century until the present day. The contributors to this volume, international specialists in Coptology from around the world, examine various aspects of Coptic civilization in Aswan and Nubia over the past centuries. The complexity of Christian identity in Nubia, as distinct from Egypt, is examined in the context of church ritual and architecture. Many of the studies explore Coptic material culture: inscriptions, art, architecture, and archaeology; and language and literature. The archaeological and artistic heritage of monastic sites in Edfu, Aswan, Makuria, and Kom Ombo are highlighted, attesting to their important legacies in the region.
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Long Pilgrimages Revealed in Ancient Sudan Art | Medieval Churches & Banganarti & Selib
Long Pilgrimages Revealed in Ancient Sudan Art Owen Jarus, LiveScience Contributor Date: 03 November 2011 Time: 08:33 AM ET A 3-D reconstruction of the upper church at Banganarti. Built almost 1,000 years ago this medieval church was one of two that archaeologists excavated at the site. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
Excavations of a series of medieval churches in central Sudan have revealed a treasure trove of art, including a European-influenced work, along with evidence of journeys undertaken by travelers from western Europe that were equivalent to the distance between New York City and the Grand Canyon. A visit by a Catalonian man named Benesec is recorded in one of the churches, along with visits from other pilgrims of the Middle Ages, according to lead researcher Bogdan Zurawski of the Institute of Mediterranean and Oriental Cultures of the Polish Academy of Sciences. The discoveries were made at Banganarti and Selib, two sites along the Nile that were part of Makuria, a Christian kingdom ruled by a dynasty of kings throughout the Middle Ages.
The art there tells stories of kings, saints, pilgrims and even a female demon, said Zurawski, who presented his findings recently at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. Inside medieval churches Zurawski said the most recent of the churches uncovered in Banganarti, built nearly 1,000 years ago, is unique. "It has no parallel in Nubia and elsewhere," he said. [See images of Banganarti church discoveries] The church contains 18 square rooms, two staircases and, at its center, a domed area that probably contained holy relics. The team believes the building was dedicated to the archangel Raphael and was used for healing rituals. "The multitude of inscriptions addressed to this archangel are more than suggestive" that the church was dedicated to him, Zurawski said. Beneath this building lies a structure, built about 300 years earlier, which also appears to have been dedicated to Raphael.
This lower church, as the archaeologists refer to it, contains a ninth-century mural depicting "the Harrowing of Hell," which shows Jesus visiting the underworld to rescue the firstborn. [See images of the lower church]
A Catalonian journey The team uncovered numerous inscriptions at the two sites, many left by pilgrims visiting the churches in hopes of being healed.
The team uncovered numerous inscriptions at the two sites, many left by pilgrims visiting the churches in hopes of being healed.
One of the inscriptions at Banganartiis written in Catalonian and appears to have been inscribed sometime in the 13th or 14th century by the man named Benesec. It reads: "When Benesec came to pay homage to Raphael." Zurawski told LiveScience that "Benesec" was a very popular name in 13th- and 14th-century southern France. This particular Benesec had probably traveled some 2,300 miles (3,700 kilometers) from southern France or northern Spain. The journey took him east across the Mediterranean Sea and far up the Nile into the interior of Africa.
In addition to the monograms of Raphael, a prayer to the archangel, written by a King Zacharias, was found inscribed in the ruins near Banganarti. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
The inscription and a Catalonian playing card found downriver by another team, which may or may not have been left by Benesec, were the only traces found of these visitors from Europe.
Zurawski said Benesec may have been a trader who, along with other Catalonians, received permission from the Mamluk rulers of Egypt to pass through their territory. "The Catalonians were granted trade privileges, trade rights, to exchange goods and to trade with Egypt, and apparently they also came to Nubia," he said.
Krzysztof Grzymski, a curator at the Royal Ontario Museum, said at the symposium that evidence of contact between central Sudan and the Mediterranean world goes back to antiquity. At the site of Meroë, which reached its peak around 2,000 years ago, Grzymski said, he studied the sculpture of a head that has Greek traits. "This head is clearly Hellenistic or Hellenized, and yet it certainly was made by local artists from Meroë."
The Harrowing of Hell The team uncovered numerous works of art at Banganarti, among them the ninth-century painting of "the Harrowing of Hell." "The masterpiece of lower-church painting, decoration, is this 'Harrowing of Hell'; it is absolutely unusual," said Zurawski. It shows "Jesus Christ just descended to hell to trample Hades, liberating the firstborn, who are shown naked. Also, the common dead are shown naked." The dead are also shown in anguish. "The common dead [are] screaming, crying with outstretched fingers," said Zurawski. He said that the emotion of the dead, and the depiction of them and the firstborn being naked, were very odd.
The common dead are shown in agony in this medieval artwork. The emotion they display, and the fact that they, along with the first born, are naked, suggest that this painting may have had a European artist. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
"That is purely a European way of inscribing the Harrowing of Hell," he said. "In Byzantine tradition, the firstborn and the dead in the harrowing scene are shown in stiff hieratic postures, totally clothed."
King David … of Nubia There are many other features of art and architecture at these two holy sites. Banganarti contains several images of kings, most of them anonymous because of the lack of an accompanying inscription. However, one exception shows a 13th-century ruler known as King David, possibly named after the biblical figure. An inscription, found nearby, reads: "O God of Michael [or "O Saint Michael"], cause Arouase to live through the savior of King David." Arouase appears to be a reference to a person. Another work of art is an image of St. Damianos, a third-century physician who, with his brother Cosmas, practiced in Cilicia in southeastern Turkey. They were known asanargyroi, doctors who treated patients for free. During a series of Christian persecutions brought about by the Roman Emperor Diocletian, they were rounded up, tortured and beheaded.
Zurawski said the saint appears to have been held in particularly high regard at this site. For instance, one inscription mentions a wealthy person named Teita who came to Banganarti to mark Damianos' life.
The church image of Damianos' brother did not survive. A female demon The artwork is rich in both religious and mythological lore. For instance, at the same church the team discovered a depiction of Sideros, a female demon, naked and bound up while being trampled by St. Abbakyros, a medical saint, on a horse.
Another image found in the lower church is that of the female demon Sideros, shown bound and naked, being trampled on by St. Abbakyros, a medical saint. In medieval mythology Sideros is said to prey on pregnant mothers and newborn children. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski Sideros in medieval mythology was a demon that preyed on women during childbirth. Another scene at Banganarti depicts the legend of a third-century Roman soldiernamed Mercurius who converted to Christianity and was executed for it. "The Passio recounts that Mercurius lived under the emperors Decius and Valerian. ... He saw in a vision an angel who presented him with a sword, promising him victory and telling him not to forget his God," writes Christopher Walker in the book "The Warrior Saints in Byzantine Art and Tradition" (Ashgate publishing, 2003). (Passio is a Latin word for passion.) When he refused the emperor's invitation to make an offering to Artemis, Mercurius refused, professing his new faith. He was tortured and killed. According to the picture discovered at Banganarti, Mercurius reappeared as a sort of spirit almost 100 years later, after Christianity had been declared legal throughout the Roman Empire.
At the time Rome had an emperor, Julian, who made offerings to the old Roman gods instead of observing Christian rites. The emperor was campaigning in the Middle East against the Persians when, according to legend, Mercurius appeared and stabbed him with a spear, killing him.
"On the south wall [at Banganarti there is] a very interesting mural representing Saint Merkurios killing Emperor Julian the Apostate," said Zurawski. An image of the praying Virgin Mary is also shown in the scene.
A blind visitor Another interesting image is that of an apparently blind individual who visited Banganarti in hopes of a cure, possibly because the church was dedicated to the archangel known to be a patron of the blind. "One of the ophthalmological patients who came to Banganarti with eye problems was not Christian but was Muslim," Zurawski said. His name was written as "Deif Ali," Arabic for "Ali the guest." In a drawing of him in the church, he is shown with a walking stick and what looks like a bag. He wears a kilt-like dress and appears to be struggling to get his footing right. “His blindness is shown in the way he was painted,” said Zurawski.
Selib A few miles to the east of Banganarti is Selib, which holds four churches, built one on top of the other. They date from the sixth century, a time when people in Nubia were beginning to convert to Christianity, and the buildings were in use throughout the Middle Ages. [See images of medieval church Selib]
There are also remains of Meroitic columns and reliefs dating to around 2,000 years ago, when the city of Meroë was the center of an empire that stretched from southern Egypt to central Sudan.
Work at the site began in 2008 and resumed, after a brief hiatus, in 2010. Much remains to be done, but the team already has unearthed some interesting finds, among them a baptistery dating back nearly 1,500 years.
The team also found an inscription that indicates that one of the churches was built by a seventh-century king named Zacharias. It reads, "Zacharias basileus Mena hagios," which means that the king dedicated the church to St. Mena, a third-century Egyptian hermit.
Nearby, the team encountered an intriguing mystery. The archaeologists excavated a well and found the bottom to be beautifully decorated.
"At the depth of 5 meters, the regular bond of brick, the so-called English bond, is interrupted," said Zurawski during his museum lecture. In place "a zig-zag pattern made with oven-fired bricks" appears.
"There is no technical, structural reason for such a changing of the pattern of the brick. The only reason is aesthetical, but what aesthetics stand for in a well at the depth of five meters, I cannot ascertain," he said.
Only a few miles east of Banganarti, the inhabitants apparently decided that even the bottom of a well should be beautiful.
I found this statment beyond silly and odd "The common dead are shown in agony in this medieval artwork. The emotion they display, and the fact that they, along with the first born, are naked, suggest that this painting may have had a European artist. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski"
It is very African to show nudity in religious images. All one has to do is go back to the precursor to Christianity in the Nile valley to see that. The fact that Europeans Christians were going to Africa for religious pilgrimage and not the reverse shows that the place was of some significance to Christendom as a whole. One could even argue that European Christians would have taken iconography from Africa and not the reverse.
KING Member # 9422
posted
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss:
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: Long Pilgrimages Revealed in Ancient Sudan Art | Medieval Churches & Banganarti & Selib
Long Pilgrimages Revealed in Ancient Sudan Art Owen Jarus, LiveScience Contributor Date: 03 November 2011 Time: 08:33 AM ET A 3-D reconstruction of the upper church at Banganarti. Built almost 1,000 years ago this medieval church was one of two that archaeologists excavated at the site. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
Excavations of a series of medieval churches in central Sudan have revealed a treasure trove of art, including a European-influenced work, along with evidence of journeys undertaken by travelers from western Europe that were equivalent to the distance between New York City and the Grand Canyon. A visit by a Catalonian man named Benesec is recorded in one of the churches, along with visits from other pilgrims of the Middle Ages, according to lead researcher Bogdan Zurawski of the Institute of Mediterranean and Oriental Cultures of the Polish Academy of Sciences. The discoveries were made at Banganarti and Selib, two sites along the Nile that were part of Makuria, a Christian kingdom ruled by a dynasty of kings throughout the Middle Ages.
The art there tells stories of kings, saints, pilgrims and even a female demon, said Zurawski, who presented his findings recently at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto. Inside medieval churches Zurawski said the most recent of the churches uncovered in Banganarti, built nearly 1,000 years ago, is unique. "It has no parallel in Nubia and elsewhere," he said. [See images of Banganarti church discoveries] The church contains 18 square rooms, two staircases and, at its center, a domed area that probably contained holy relics. The team believes the building was dedicated to the archangel Raphael and was used for healing rituals. "The multitude of inscriptions addressed to this archangel are more than suggestive" that the church was dedicated to him, Zurawski said. Beneath this building lies a structure, built about 300 years earlier, which also appears to have been dedicated to Raphael.
This lower church, as the archaeologists refer to it, contains a ninth-century mural depicting "the Harrowing of Hell," which shows Jesus visiting the underworld to rescue the firstborn. [See images of the lower church]
A Catalonian journey The team uncovered numerous inscriptions at the two sites, many left by pilgrims visiting the churches in hopes of being healed.
The team uncovered numerous inscriptions at the two sites, many left by pilgrims visiting the churches in hopes of being healed.
One of the inscriptions at Banganartiis written in Catalonian and appears to have been inscribed sometime in the 13th or 14th century by the man named Benesec. It reads: "When Benesec came to pay homage to Raphael." Zurawski told LiveScience that "Benesec" was a very popular name in 13th- and 14th-century southern France. This particular Benesec had probably traveled some 2,300 miles (3,700 kilometers) from southern France or northern Spain. The journey took him east across the Mediterranean Sea and far up the Nile into the interior of Africa.
In addition to the monograms of Raphael, a prayer to the archangel, written by a King Zacharias, was found inscribed in the ruins near Banganarti. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
The inscription and a Catalonian playing card found downriver by another team, which may or may not have been left by Benesec, were the only traces found of these visitors from Europe.
Zurawski said Benesec may have been a trader who, along with other Catalonians, received permission from the Mamluk rulers of Egypt to pass through their territory. "The Catalonians were granted trade privileges, trade rights, to exchange goods and to trade with Egypt, and apparently they also came to Nubia," he said.
Krzysztof Grzymski, a curator at the Royal Ontario Museum, said at the symposium that evidence of contact between central Sudan and the Mediterranean world goes back to antiquity. At the site of Meroë, which reached its peak around 2,000 years ago, Grzymski said, he studied the sculpture of a head that has Greek traits. "This head is clearly Hellenistic or Hellenized, and yet it certainly was made by local artists from Meroë."
The Harrowing of Hell The team uncovered numerous works of art at Banganarti, among them the ninth-century painting of "the Harrowing of Hell." "The masterpiece of lower-church painting, decoration, is this 'Harrowing of Hell'; it is absolutely unusual," said Zurawski. It shows "Jesus Christ just descended to hell to trample Hades, liberating the firstborn, who are shown naked. Also, the common dead are shown naked." The dead are also shown in anguish. "The common dead [are] screaming, crying with outstretched fingers," said Zurawski. He said that the emotion of the dead, and the depiction of them and the firstborn being naked, were very odd.
The common dead are shown in agony in this medieval artwork. The emotion they display, and the fact that they, along with the first born, are naked, suggest that this painting may have had a European artist. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski
"That is purely a European way of inscribing the Harrowing of Hell," he said. "In Byzantine tradition, the firstborn and the dead in the harrowing scene are shown in stiff hieratic postures, totally clothed."
King David … of Nubia There are many other features of art and architecture at these two holy sites. Banganarti contains several images of kings, most of them anonymous because of the lack of an accompanying inscription. However, one exception shows a 13th-century ruler known as King David, possibly named after the biblical figure. An inscription, found nearby, reads: "O God of Michael [or "O Saint Michael"], cause Arouase to live through the savior of King David." Arouase appears to be a reference to a person. Another work of art is an image of St. Damianos, a third-century physician who, with his brother Cosmas, practiced in Cilicia in southeastern Turkey. They were known asanargyroi, doctors who treated patients for free. During a series of Christian persecutions brought about by the Roman Emperor Diocletian, they were rounded up, tortured and beheaded.
Zurawski said the saint appears to have been held in particularly high regard at this site. For instance, one inscription mentions a wealthy person named Teita who came to Banganarti to mark Damianos' life.
The church image of Damianos' brother did not survive. A female demon The artwork is rich in both religious and mythological lore. For instance, at the same church the team discovered a depiction of Sideros, a female demon, naked and bound up while being trampled by St. Abbakyros, a medical saint, on a horse.
Another image found in the lower church is that of the female demon Sideros, shown bound and naked, being trampled on by St. Abbakyros, a medical saint. In medieval mythology Sideros is said to prey on pregnant mothers and newborn children. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski Sideros in medieval mythology was a demon that preyed on women during childbirth. Another scene at Banganarti depicts the legend of a third-century Roman soldiernamed Mercurius who converted to Christianity and was executed for it. "The Passio recounts that Mercurius lived under the emperors Decius and Valerian. ... He saw in a vision an angel who presented him with a sword, promising him victory and telling him not to forget his God," writes Christopher Walker in the book "The Warrior Saints in Byzantine Art and Tradition" (Ashgate publishing, 2003). (Passio is a Latin word for passion.) When he refused the emperor's invitation to make an offering to Artemis, Mercurius refused, professing his new faith. He was tortured and killed. According to the picture discovered at Banganarti, Mercurius reappeared as a sort of spirit almost 100 years later, after Christianity had been declared legal throughout the Roman Empire.
At the time Rome had an emperor, Julian, who made offerings to the old Roman gods instead of observing Christian rites. The emperor was campaigning in the Middle East against the Persians when, according to legend, Mercurius appeared and stabbed him with a spear, killing him.
"On the south wall [at Banganarti there is] a very interesting mural representing Saint Merkurios killing Emperor Julian the Apostate," said Zurawski. An image of the praying Virgin Mary is also shown in the scene.
A blind visitor Another interesting image is that of an apparently blind individual who visited Banganarti in hopes of a cure, possibly because the church was dedicated to the archangel known to be a patron of the blind. "One of the ophthalmological patients who came to Banganarti with eye problems was not Christian but was Muslim," Zurawski said. His name was written as "Deif Ali," Arabic for "Ali the guest." In a drawing of him in the church, he is shown with a walking stick and what looks like a bag. He wears a kilt-like dress and appears to be struggling to get his footing right. “His blindness is shown in the way he was painted,” said Zurawski.
Selib A few miles to the east of Banganarti is Selib, which holds four churches, built one on top of the other. They date from the sixth century, a time when people in Nubia were beginning to convert to Christianity, and the buildings were in use throughout the Middle Ages. [See images of medieval church Selib]
There are also remains of Meroitic columns and reliefs dating to around 2,000 years ago, when the city of Meroë was the center of an empire that stretched from southern Egypt to central Sudan.
Work at the site began in 2008 and resumed, after a brief hiatus, in 2010. Much remains to be done, but the team already has unearthed some interesting finds, among them a baptistery dating back nearly 1,500 years.
The team also found an inscription that indicates that one of the churches was built by a seventh-century king named Zacharias. It reads, "Zacharias basileus Mena hagios," which means that the king dedicated the church to St. Mena, a third-century Egyptian hermit.
Nearby, the team encountered an intriguing mystery. The archaeologists excavated a well and found the bottom to be beautifully decorated.
"At the depth of 5 meters, the regular bond of brick, the so-called English bond, is interrupted," said Zurawski during his museum lecture. In place "a zig-zag pattern made with oven-fired bricks" appears.
"There is no technical, structural reason for such a changing of the pattern of the brick. The only reason is aesthetical, but what aesthetics stand for in a well at the depth of five meters, I cannot ascertain," he said.
Only a few miles east of Banganarti, the inhabitants apparently decided that even the bottom of a well should be beautiful.
I found this statment beyond silly and odd "The common dead are shown in agony in this medieval artwork. The emotion they display, and the fact that they, along with the first born, are naked, suggest that this painting may have had a European artist. CREDIT: Bogdan Zurawski"
It is very African to show nudity in religious images. All one has to do is go back to the precursor to Christianity in the Nile valley to see that. The fact that Europeans Christians were going to Africa for religious pilgrimage and not the reverse shows that the place was of some significance to Christendom as a whole. One could even argue that European Christians would have taken iconography from Africa and not the reverse.
Well you gotta understand some europeans mentality.
They see nudity, they wanna have sex period. These people coverup others because they can't control there urges. Glad you brought this up also Zeiss because I saw the same thing and was scratching my head wondering about that comment. Explained it well. And as we know in Egypt, the women are majority covered up yet still harassed.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
Interesting comments. Another thing that's so interesting about nubia is that it's civilization is the longest lasting civilization in the world.
Nubia and it's civilization in other regions of africa like sudan etc..had many changes,but the basic civilization still exist.
In some ways egypt's civilization is still around.
You could find books talking about some of that culture still around. The egyptians coptic culture for example.
The mande civilization would be the third longest lasting civilization OR A TIE WITH with china i think because it goes back to 2000 b.c. at least and IT still exist.
mena7 Member # 20555
posted
Robin Walker book When We Ruled is a great encyclopedic book on African history. I need to buy Salim Faraji book The Roots of Nubian Christianity. I discovered Runoko Rashidi short chapter, easy to read illustrated book when the world was ruled by black.
This Nubian church is very beautiful. I think black Churches from all over the world should copy this Nubian Church design.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
Egypt's coptic culture is basically egyptian civilization or culture but just with christian influences when i think about it more.
You could say ancient egypt culture had some major changes but the basic culture is still around,but less so then the culture of nubia in ancient times and the earliest period of the middle ages and pre-christian axum.
Most copts in egypt are arabized too a point however and even thier culture but i read that there are few that are more egyptian in culture then we think.
The coptic ancient language is still around but spoken by a small group and it may die out.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
Here some more info.
The Copts are the native Christians of Egypt (Coptic: ⲟⲩⲢⲉⲙ̀ⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ̀ⲛ̀Ⲭⲣⲏⲥⲧⲓ̀ⲁⲛⲟⲥ ou.Remenkīmi en.Ekhristianos ; Egyptian Arabic: اقباط, IPA: [ɑʔˈbɑːtˤ]), a major ethnoreligious group in Egypt and the largest Christian group there. Christianity was the religion of the vast majority from 400–800 A.D. and the majority after the Muslim conquest until the mid-10th century and remains the faith of a significant minority population. Historically they spoke the Coptic language, a direct descendant of the Demotic Egyptian spoken in the Roman era, but it has been near-extinct and mostly limited to liturgical use since the 18th century. They now speak Arabic.
Pharaonism Many Coptic intellectuals hold to "Pharaonism," which states that Coptic culture is largely derived from pre-Christian, Pharaonic culture, and is not indebted to Greece. It gives the Copts a claim to a deep heritage in Egyptian history and culture. Pharaonism was widely held by Coptic and Muslim scholars in the early 20th century, and it helped bridge the divide between those groups. Most scholars today see Pharaonism as a late development shaped primarily by western Orientalism, and they doubt its validity.
Copts in modern Sudan Further information: Christianity in Sudan Sudan has a native Coptic minority, although many Copts in Sudan are descended from more recent Egyptian immigrants. Copts in Sudan live mostly in northern cities, including Al Obeid, Atbara, Dongola, Khartoum, Omdurman, Port Sudan, and Wad Medani. They number up to 500,000, or slightly over 1% of the Sudanese population. Due to their advanced education, their role in the life of the country has been more significant than their numbers suggest. They have occasionally faced forced conversion to Islam, resulting in their emigration and decrease in number.
Modern immigration of Copts to Sudan peaked in the early 19th century, and they generally received a tolerant welcome there. However, this was interrupted by a decade of persecution under Mahdist rule at the end of the 19th century. As a result of this persecution, many were forced to relinquish their faith, adopt Islam, and intermarry with the native Sudanese. The Anglo-Egyptian invasion in 1898 allowed Copts greater religious and economic freedom, and they extended their original roles as artisans and merchants into trading, banking, engineering, medicine, and the civil service. Proficiency in business and administration made them a privileged minority. However, the return of militant Islam in the mid-1960s and subsequent demands by radicals for an Islamic constitution prompted Copts to join in public opposition to religious rule.
Gaafar Nimeiry's introduction of Islamic Sharia law in 1983 began a new phase of oppressive treatment of Copts, among other non-Muslims. After the overthrow of Nimeiry, Coptic leaders supported a secular candidate in the 1986 elections. However, when the National Islamic Front overthrew the elected government of Sadiq al-Mahdi with the help of the military, discrimination against Copts returned in earnest. Hundreds of Copts were dismissed from the civil service and judiciary.
In February 1991, a Coptic pilot working for Sudan Airways was executed for illegal possession of foreign currency. Before his execution, he had been offered amnesty and money if he converted to Islam, but he refused. Thousands attended his funeral, and the execution was taken as a warning by many Copts, who began to flee the country.
Restrictions on the Copts' rights to Sudanese nationality followed, and it became difficult for them to obtain Sudanese nationality by birth or by naturalization, resulting in problems when attempting to travel abroad. The confiscation of Christian schools and the imposition of an Arab-Islamic emphasis in language and history teaching were accompanied by harassment of Christian children and the introduction of hijab dress laws. A Coptic child was flogged for failing to recite a Koranic verse. In contrast with the extensive media broadcasting of the Muslim Friday prayers, the radio ceased coverage of the Christian Sunday service. As the civil war raged throughout the 1990s, the government focused its religious fervour on the south. Although experiencing discrimination, the Copts and other long-established Christian groups in the north had fewer restrictions than other types of Christians in the south.
Today, the Coptic Church in Sudan is officially registered with the government, and is exempt from property tax. In 2005, the Sudanese government of National Unity (GNU) named a Coptic Orthodox priest to a government position, though the ruling Islamist party's continued dominance under the GNU provides ample reason to doubt its commitment to broader religious or ethnic representation.
Demographics Further information: Christianity in Egypt and Christianity in Sudan Living in a country of Muslim majority, the size of the population of Copts is a continuously disputed matter, frequently for reasons of religious jealousy and animosity. Some official estimates state that Christians represent from 5% to 10% or less of a population of over 83 million Egyptians while other independent and Christian sources estimate much higher numbers, up to 23% of the population.
Coptic population in Sudan is at about half a million or 1% of Sudanese population.
Diaspora
Outside of Egypt and Sudan, the largest Coptic diaspora population is in the United States and Canada, US population numbering about 200,000 (estimates of Coptic organizations ranging as high as a million).
Smaller communities (below 100,000) are found in Australia, Kuwait, Libya, the United Kingdom, France, South Africa,and Canada.
Minor communities below 10,000 people are reported from Jordan Germany Switzerland Austria and elsewhere.
It is noted that Copts also live in Denmark, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia and Sweden.
Language Main articles: Coptic language and Egyptian language
The Coptic language is the last stage of the Egyptian language.
Coptic should more correctly be used to refer to the script rather than the language itself. Even though this script was introduced as far back as the 1st century BC, it has been applied to the writing of the Egyptian language from the 1st century AD to the present day.Coptic remained the spoken language of all Egyptians until it was slowly replaced by Masri (colloquial Egyptian Arabic) around the 17th century, although it may have survived in isolated pockets for a little longer.
Today, Coptic is the native language of only about 300 Copts around the world. It is also the liturgical language of the native Egyptian Churches (the Coptic Orthodox Church and the Coptic Catholic Church). It is taught worldwide in many prestigious institutions, but its teaching within Egypt remains restricted.
The Copts A study of Copts group in Sudan found relatively high frequencies of Sub-Saharan Haplogroup B (Y-DNA). The Sudanese Copts are converts to Egyptian Christianity and not ethnically related to Egyptian Copts. According to the study, the presence of Sub-Saharan haplogroups may also consistent with the historical record in which southern Egypt was colonized by Nilotic populations during the early state formation.
However, it is not generally accepted that Sudanese Copts are ethnically related to those of Egypt, as conversion of ethnic Nubian kings to Christianity occurred in the 6th century AD. According to tradition, a missionary sent by Byzantine empress Theodora arrived in Nobatia and started preaching the gospel about 540 AD. It is possible that the conversion process began earlier, however, under the aegis of Coptic missionaries from Egypt. The Nubian kings accepted the Monophysite Christianity already practiced in Egypt and acknowledged the spiritual authority of the Egyptian Coptic patriarch of Alexandria over the Nubian church, which in turn adopted the Coptic name for their church.
typeZeiss Member # 18859
posted
Firewall
Some of that is far from the truth. The copts of Egypt today have nothing to do with the original people of that land. Many or I would say most of those whites and tans are Assyrians and other middle eastern Christians that were invited in.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
^Not Assyrians - who were Black anyway: rather they would likely be leftover Greeks and Romans, who both ruled Egypt, and who were both Christians, and who were both multiracial.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Firewall
Some of that is far from the truth. The copts of Egypt today have nothing to do with the original people of that land. Many or I would say most of those whites and tans are Assyrians and other middle eastern Christians that were invited in.
Let's not forget that whites came into egypt before the greeks and romans like the invading hyksos for example. Some of these whites were slaves too.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
quote:Originally posted by Firewall:
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Firewall
Some of that is far from the truth. The copts of Egypt today have nothing to do with the original people of that land. Many or I would say most of those whites and tans are Assyrians and other middle eastern Christians that were invited in.
Let's not forget that whites came into egypt before the greeks and romans like the invading hyksos for example. Some of these whites were slaves too.
Is this a concerted effort to annoy me with nonsense?
SHOW ME ONE SINGLE PIECE OF TEXT, IMAGE, OR ANYTHING, EVEN SUGGESTING THAT THE HYKSOS WERE ALBINOS!
On second thought, don't waste you time, just take your ignorant nonsense somewhere else.
Stormfront would be a good destination for you, be sure to take Ra with you.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
You got your facts Wrong mike. By the way everything you said applies to you mike,not me,you pseudo scientist.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: You got your facts Wrong mike. By the way everything you said applies to you mike,not me,you pseudo scientist.
Just like the little Albino piece of sh1t Ra. I ask for proof, even the most basic, but all you have is the sass of a piss-tailed kid.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
You have no proof mike,and i know the facts,you don't. You are full of non-sense and a clear pseudo scientist.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
By the way anything else you say i will ignore or skip your post. You are a waste of time.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
^I believe Ra said the same thing after I corrected him. As I said, you are free to spew that Albino nonsense. It's just that you must do it somewhere else.
Of course, proof of any kind would shut me right up!
He,he,he,he:
But of course Albino history has no proof, just lies, backed up by other lies.
Clyde Winters Member # 10129
posted
quote:Originally posted by Firewall:
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Firewall
Some of that is far from the truth. The copts of Egypt today have nothing to do with the original people of that land. Many or I would say most of those whites and tans are Assyrians and other middle eastern Christians that were invited in.
Let's not forget that whites came into egypt before the greeks and romans like the invading hyksos for example. Some of these whites were slaves too.
The Hyksos were probably Blacks--not whites.
typeZeiss Member # 18859
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Not Assyrians - who were Black anyway: rather they would likely be leftover Greeks and Romans, who both ruled Egypt, and who were both Christians, and who were both multiracial.
there is no "likely" involved here. Romans invited Christians from the middle east, and it is my understanding they were Assyrians. They gave them land grants and the whole shabang. If I have time I will find the supporting documentation for that. Never the less, Copts ie the tan and white ones are late comers to the area.
typeZeiss Member # 18859
posted
quote:Originally posted by Firewall:
quote:Originally posted by typeZeiss: Firewall
Some of that is far from the truth. The copts of Egypt today have nothing to do with the original people of that land. Many or I would say most of those whites and tans are Assyrians and other middle eastern Christians that were invited in.
Let's not forget that whites came into egypt before the greeks and romans like the invading hyksos for example. Some of these whites were slaves too.
yes BUT that has nothing to do with copts. Copts came in much later and they were invited by Romans. This is excluding native copts from Upper Egypt that had a kingdom at one time.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
^You should remember that the Roman definition of a Syrian/Assyrian or Arab is not the same as the modern definition. After it's defeat, Assyria ceased to exist. Please note the following history:
The unified and reorganized Mede army was now a match for the Assyrians. The Medes attacked one of the important Assyrian border cities named "Arrapkha" in 615 B.C, and then surrounded the Assyrian capital of "Nineveh" in 614 B.C.
But they were unable to capture Nineveh, and instead successfully stormed the Assyrian religious capital of Ashur. Later, an alliance between Babylon and the Medes was sealed by the marriage of Cyaxares' granddaughter, to Nebuchadrezzar II, the son of Babylonian King "Nabopolassar", this in 612 B.C.
Then the attack on the Assyrian capital of Nineveh was renewed, and the city fell in late August of that year. The Babylonians and the Medes, together pursued the fleeing Assyrians westward into Syria. Assyrian appeals to Egypt for help came to naught, and the last Assyrian ruler, Ashur-uballit II, disappeared from history in 609 B.C. The spoils and territories of the Assyrian Empire, were then split-up between The Babylonians and the Medes.
Almost a thousand years later in Syria, it would have been very difficult to determine who was or was not of Assyrian stock.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
Written by The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica
HYKSOS
Hyksos, group of mixed Semitic-Asiatics who immigrated into Egypt’s delta region and gradually settled there during the 18th century bce. Beginning about 1630, a series of Hyksos kings ruled northern Egypt as the 15th dynasty (c. 1630–1523 bce; see ancient Egypt: The Second Intermediate period). The name Hyksos was used by the Egyptian historian Manetho (fl. 300 bce), who, according to the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (fl. 1st century ce), translated the word as “king-shepherds” or “captive shepherds.” Josephus himself wished to demonstrate the great antiquity of the Jews and thus identified the Hyksos with the Hebrews of the Bible. Hyksos was in fact probably an Egyptian term for “rulers of foreign lands” (heqa-khase), and it almost certainly designated the foreign dynasts rather than a whole nation.
The Hyksos seem to have been connected with the general migratory movements elsewhere in the Middle East at the time. Although most of the Hyksos names seem to have been Semitic, there may also have been a Hurrian element among them. The contemporary 16th-dynasty rulers—minor Hyksos kings who ruled simultaneously with those of the 15th dynasty—were probably only vassals of the latter group (see ancient Egypt: The Second Intermediate period).
The Hyksos introduced the horse and chariot, the compound bow, improved battle axes, and advanced fortification techniques into Egypt. At Avaris (modern Tall al-Dabʿa) in the northeastern delta, they built their capital with a fortified camp over the remains of a Middle Kingdom town. Excavations since the 1960s have revealed a Canaanite-style temple, Palestinian-type burials, including horse burials, Palestinian types of pottery, quantities of their superior weapons, and a series of Minoan frescoes that demonstrate stylistic parallels to those of Knossos and Thera.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted The Hyksos Expulsion
As the battles raged, the Hyksos were eventually forced to barricade themselves in their city of Avaris. Here they were besieged, but managed to hold out. Kamose, not wishing to maintain a protracted siege, offered a compromise. Whereby if the Hyksos would leave peacefully, they could take all of their possessions and receive safe conduct out of Egypt. This the Hyksos accepted, and they gathered up all of their possessions, (and all of the Egyptians possessions that they could), and left Egypt.
Finally the Hyksos were expelled, (they went into Canaan - Biblical Exodus?). Subsequently though, a rebellion by unhappy quarry workers, encouraged the Hyksos to return to Egypt.
Here we are quoting Josephus Flavius from his book, Against Apion, where he is quoting passages concerning the Hyksos from Manetho's Aegyptiaca. Josephus is a Hebrew traitor named Joseph, who upon going over to the Romans, was made a General and given the title Josephus Flavius. He subsequently commanded Roman troops in putting down the Hebrew rebellion. {Not all Hebrews, especially the wealthy, objected to Roman rule}. Josephus's writing is generally considered to be "self-serving", but since he is quoting Manetho, we will use it.
"Those sent to work in the quarries lived miserably for a long while, and the king was asked to set apart the city Avaris, which the Hyksos had left, for their habitation and protection; and he granted them their wish.
But when these men had entered it, and found it suitable for a revolt, they chose a ruler from among the priests of Heliopolis, whose name was Osarsiph (Moses). They swore an oath that they would obey him in all things. The first laws he gave them were that they should not worship the Egyptian gods, nor should they abstain from any of the sacred animals that the Egyptians held in the highest esteem, but could kill them, and that they should not ally themselves to any but those that were of their conspiracy.
After making such laws as these, and others contrary to Egyptian customs, he ordered that the many hands at their service to be employed in building walls around the city and prepare for a war with king Ahmose. He colluded with the other priests, and those that were polluted as well, (apparently many of the quarry workers were Lepers), and sent ambassadors to those Hyksos expelled by Kamose to Jerusalem, informing them of his own affairs, and of the state of those others that had been treated so shamefully, and desired that they would come united to his assistance in this war against Egypt.
He also promised their return to their ancient city and land of Avaris, and plentiful support for their people; that he would protect them and fight for them if need be, and that the land would easily be subdued. The Hyksos were delighted with his message, and assembled two hundred thousand men. Shortly they arrived at Avaris.
This account goes on to tell of the Pharaohs sojourn to Nubia and his return 13 years later.
In any event, by now it was the reign of Kamose's son "Ahmose I", and he offered no compromise. On his stella, Ahmose I proclaims that he chased the Hyksos out of Egypt, and as far east as the Euphrates river.
The Egyptian historian "Manetho" (305–282 B.C.), writes about this expulsion: "And it was also reported that the priest, who ordained their polity and their laws, was by birth of Heliopolis, and his name was Osarsiph from Osyris, who was the god of Heliopolis; but that when he was gone over to these people, his name was changed, and he was called Moses".
typeZeiss Member # 18859
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^You should remember that the Roman definition of a Syrian/Assyrian or Arab is not the same as the modern definition. After it's defeat, Assyria ceased to exist. Please note the following history:
The unified and reorganized Mede army was now a match for the Assyrians. The Medes attacked one of the important Assyrian border cities named "Arrapkha" in 615 B.C, and then surrounded the Assyrian capital of "Nineveh" in 614 B.C.
But they were unable to capture Nineveh, and instead successfully stormed the Assyrian religious capital of Ashur. Later, an alliance between Babylon and the Medes was sealed by the marriage of Cyaxares' granddaughter, to Nebuchadrezzar II, the son of Babylonian King "Nabopolassar", this in 612 B.C.
Then the attack on the Assyrian capital of Nineveh was renewed, and the city fell in late August of that year. The Babylonians and the Medes, together pursued the fleeing Assyrians westward into Syria. Assyrian appeals to Egypt for help came to naught, and the last Assyrian ruler, Ashur-uballit II, disappeared from history in 609 B.C. The spoils and territories of the Assyrian Empire, were then split-up between The Babylonians and the Medes.
Almost a thousand years later in Syria, it would have been very difficult to determine who was or was not of Assyrian stock.
According to one German professor he believes the Assyrians were blacks that ended up in Nigeria and hence gave rise to the Hausa people. I have no problem with that. All I am saying is, White Copts are not the original people from Egypt. They came in VERY late.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
The only posts i read recently in this thread was typeZeiss,but after this i think i will move on.
I do not think the white and brown copts of today only just came into egypt around the roman times.
These earlier whites LIKE THE Hyksos ETC..that came into egypt became africanized and just became christian copts along with the native population when egypt became christian.
Remember some of the whites that came into egypt were africanized just like the white berbers you see today in the north africa.
Of course more whites came in later around the greek and roman period and then THE WHITE AND BROWN populations exploded overtime in the middle ages to early modern period,and of course the native blacks in egypt and the native blacks popuation in the rest of the north african countries bordering the Mediterranean became the minority.
That's why most of copts are not black in egypt.
The brown folks of egypt of course are a admixture of black and white but some came from other regions.
Assyrians ARE not black,you may have a few of them who became apart of that culture,but from what i have read so far they are not black and there is proof of any them came in nigeria.
They were stop by nubians,and pushed back in egypt by the way.
Of course most persians and hebrews were not black.
Most Hebrews WERE most likely white and brown and if jesus existed he was either most likely white or brown.
I AM THINKING recently he may have been a brown race man,not clearly black or white, or he could still be white with maybe some admixture but who knows.
He could have been black,but i think that's less likely.
A Brown or white MAN is more likely what he was.
The brown race type of course in most cases or all cases worldwide came about from admixture with different groups like intermarriage,rape etc...
Of course some arabs today are brown too.
Anyway i think we should get back on topic,because mike agenda is to have this the focus in this thread.
Wait,i have a better idea,i am leaving the thread because it has been ruin by mike.
Bye.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
quote:Originally posted by Firewall: The only posts i read recently in this thread was typeZeiss,but after this i think i will move on.
I do not think the white and brown copts of today only just came into egypt around the roman times.
These earlier whites LIKE THE Hyksos ETC..that came into egypt became africanized and just became christian copts along with the native population when egypt became christian.
Remember some of the whites that came into egypt were africanized just like the white berbers you see today in the north africa.
Of course more whites came in later around the greek and roman period and then THE WHITE AND BROWN populations exploded overtime in the middle ages to early modern period,and of course the native blacks in egypt and the native blacks popuation in the rest of the north african countries bordering the Mediterranean became the minority.
That's why most of copts are not black in egypt.
The brown folks of egypt of course are a admixture of black and white but some came from other regions.
Assyrians ARE not black,you may have a few of them who became apart of that culture,but from what i have read so far they are not black and there is proof of any them came in nigeria.
They were stop by nubians,and pushed back in egypt by the way.
Of course most persians and hebrews were not black.
Most Hebrews WERE most likely white and brown and if jesus existed he was either most likely white or brown.
I AM THINKING recently he may have been a brown race man,not clearly black or white, or he could still be white with maybe some admixture but who knows.
He could have been black,but i think that's less likely.
A Brown or white MAN is more likely what he was.
The brown race type of course in most cases or all cases worldwide came about from admixture with different groups like intermarriage,rape etc...
Of course some arabs today are brown too.
Anyway i think we should get back on topic,because mike agenda is to have this the focus in this thread.
Wait,i have a better idea,i am leaving the thread because it has been ruin by mike.
Bye.
Okay, you pathetic, fantasizing, little Albino piece of sh1t, you had your say, now move on to Stormfront where you belong.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
^I hope everyone took note, that this pathetic little piece of Albino sh1t, never once tried to support anything he said.
That's all they're about, the constant repetition of the standard Albino lies, all of which is really them fantasizing, and trying to make accepted history match their fantasies.
That little piece of sh1t didn't try to support his fantasy with evidence because he is unlearned, he didn't try to support his fantasy with evidence because there is NO evidence for Albino history.
If he was the greatest Albino historian in the world, he would still have the same problem: finding evidence to support a made-up fantasy history, because there is NO evidence for it.
Their history depends on their clients "Religious Belief" in what they're told. And their willingness to disbelieve the evidence of Black people that they find when dealing with the artifacts of history.
That part is the most laughable:
Albino scientists discussing and describing artifacts that they acknowledge have nothing to do with Themselves, but talking as if there was some mysterious modern humans who once inhabited the area, to whom they belonged.
Well, unless they are claiming Mongols once inhabited Europe in the earliest times, the only other choice is Black people.
Doxie, are you listening?
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
Bump.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
I forgot that mike ruin this thread with his lies.
All the info i post above is correct. Anyway i bumped this thread for the new poster so he could check out some of the updated info about early nubia.
Bye.
Mike111 Member # 9361
posted
^What a pathetic little faggot.
Firewall Member # 20331
posted
Mike you are the pathetic little faggot. BYE.
posted 
