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Xiu are not Mande or taught Maya to write
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] The comment of Lopez Austin and Lopez Lujan (2001) is irrelevant to this discussion because they make it clear that [i][b]they [/b][/i] decided to “coin a new term” Zuyua for the people who migrated into Yucatan. [QUOTE] Thus,[b] we find ourselves in the uncomfortable and risky need to coin a new term.[/b] According to the written sources, these peoples claimed that their remote ancestors came from the same far away place, Zuyuá or Siwán which, as we will see, was mythical. Since this belief was one of their ideological pillars, however, we propose to cal[l] these people the Zuyuans or Siwans. [/QUOTE]Also, Austen and Lujan do not show any evidence that any of these people claimed that they came from Zuyua. In addition, none of these people according to your quote were related to the Xiu. Moreover, the Nahuatl do not enter Mexico until hundreds of years after the end of Classical Mayan civilization. You claim that Tutul Xiu is a Mexican word, xiuhtototl “Turquoise bird” in Nahuatl. This is your opinion Tutul Xiu and xiuhtototl are not related. None of these people Toltec, Putun Maya, Itzas and Mexica introduced writing to the Maya. In fact the traditions of these people place their migration into Yucatan long after the Maya had writing. In addition, you talk about the Tutul Xiu family. This family has nothing to do with the introduction of writing to the Maya. The Tutul Xiu, you are talking about was born about 1380. This was around a 1000 years after the fall of Mayan civilization. as a result, the Tutul Xiu, who introduced writing has to be different from the Tutul Xiu family. The Olmecs probably founded writing in the Mexico. Dr. Coe, in "Olmec Jaguar and Olmec Kings" (1968), suggested that the beliefs of the Maya were of Olmec origin and that the pre Maya were Olmecs (1968,p.103). This agreed with Brainerd and Sharer's, The ancient Maya (1983,p.65) concept of colonial Olmec at Maya sites. Moreover, this view is supported by the appearance of jaguar stucco mask pyramids (probably built by the Olmecs) under Mayan pyramids e.g., Cerros Structure 5-C-2nd, Uxaxacatun pyramid and structure 5D-22 at Tikal. This would conform to Schele and Freidel's belief that the monumental structures of the Maya were derived from Olmec prototypes. Terrence Kaufman has proposed that the Olmec spoke a Mexe Zoquean speech. My research as discussed in the articles mentioned above indicate that the Olmec people spoke a variation of the Malinke Bambara language and not a Zoquean language. An Olmec origin for many pre-Classic Maya, would explain the cover-up of the jaguar stucco mask pyramids with classic Maya pyramids at these sites. It would also explain Schele and Freidel's (1990,p.56) claim that the first king of Palenque was the Olmec leader U-Kix-chan; and that the ancient Maya adopted many Olmec social institutions and olmec symbolic imagery. There is a clear prevalence of an African substratum for the origin of writing among the Maya. All the experts agree that the Olmec people probably gave writing to the Maya. Mayanist agree that the the Proto Maya term for "write" is <*c'ihb'> and probably *c'ib'. [list] [*]Yucatec c'i:b' Chorti c'ihb'a Mam c'i:b'at Lacandon c'ib' Chol c'hb'an Teco c'i:b'a Itza c'ib' Chontal c'ib' Ixil c'ib' Mopan c'ib' Tzeltalan c'b' [/list] Thus we have Proto Mayan *c'ihb' and *c'ib'. This /c/ in Mayan is often pronounced like the hard Spainish /c/ and has a /s/ sound. C.H. Brown in "Hieroglyphic literacy in ancient Mayaland: inferences from linguistics data", , 32 (4), (1991, pp.489 495) argues that *c'ihb may be the ancient Mayan term for writing but, it can not be Proto mayan because writing did not appear among the Maya until 600 B.C. This was 1500 years after the break up of the Proto Maya . This view is supported by Mayan traditions recorded by Landa and discussed by B. Stross in "Maya Hierogyphic writing and Mixe Zoquean", 24(1), (1982 , pp.73 134) all point to the extra Maya origin of writing. This word for 'write' is probably of Olmec/Manding origin. The Proto Manding term for writing is: *se'be', *safa^. [list] [*]Malinke se'be' Serere safe Bambara se'be' Susu se'be Dioula se'we' Samo se'be Sarakole safa W. Malinke safa [/list] Landa in makes it clear that the Yucatec Maya claimed that they got writing from a group of foreigners called Tutul Xiu (Tozzer,1941). The term Tutul Xiu, can be translated in Manding as Tutu l ,"Very good Subjects of the Order", Xi u, "The Shi" , or The Shis (who) are very good supporters of the cult order". In this passage the l, is a suffix of augmentation and the u, is the plural element. The Shi, is probably related to the Manding term "Si", which was also an ethnonym. The fact that the Yucatec term for writing is "c'i:b'" and the Olmec/ Malinke Bambara term for writing "se'be'", are analogous in sound support a Manding origin for the Mayan term for writing. Moreover this confirms the earlier findings by Wiener of a Malinke Bambara substratum in the culture and religious terms of the Maya and Aztec people. In addition to the Mande speaking Olmec or Xi people influcing the Mayan languages they also influenced the Otomi language of Mexico. In conclusion the affinity between Olmec and African skeletons, artifactual evidence from Olmec sites, of Olmec/Manding and Mayan signs support the view that the Mande speaking Olmecs gave the Maya writing. These Olmecs as discussed in earlier postings came from Saharan/ North Africa before 1000 B.C. This would explain the agreement beween Mayan *c'ihb' and Olmec/Manding *se'be'. This along with the obvious total affinity of the Olmec symbols and the symbols used by the Manding people at Oued Mertoutek in 3000 B.C., and later around the Nigerbend which Wiener used to compare with the Tuxtla symbols, all support the fact that the Olmec were Manding speaking Meso Americans. The fact that the Olmecs were predominately African in no way demeans the abilities of native Americans. In fact, the Olmecs left behind a rich culture/ civilizations that has made the later civilizations of the Zapotecs and Maya some of the greatest civilizations in World History. Sources C.H. Brown, Hieroglyphic literacy in ancient Mayaland, , 32 (4), (1991) pp.489-495. K. Hau, "Pre Islamic writing in West Africa", K. Hau, "African Writing in the New World", ,t.40 ser.B no.1, (1978) pp.28 48. R. A. Diehl and M.D. Coe, "Olmec Archaeology". In , (Ed.) Jill Guthrie (pp.11-25), The Art Museum, Princeton University Press, 1996. T. Kaufman and W.M. Norman, "An outline of Cholan phonology, morphology, and vocabulary. In , (Ed.) by J.S. Justeson and L. Campbell (pp.77-166). Albany : Institute of Mesoamerican Studies. C. Marquez, Estudios arqueologicas y ethnograficas>. Mexico, 1956. S.G. Morley, G.W. Brainerd and R.J. Sharer. . Stanford University Press, Stanford, California. C.A. Winters, "The influence of the Mande scripts on American ancient writing systems", , t.39, Ser.B no.2, (1977) pp.405 431. C. A. Winters, "Manding writing in the New World Part 1", Journal of African Civilization , 1 (1), (1979) pp.81 97. C.A. Winters, "Appendix B: The Jade Celts from La Venta". In , by A. von Wuthenau (pp.235 237). 2nd Edition, Mexico, 1980. C.A. Winters, "The Ancient manding Script". In , (ed) by Ivan Van Sertima (pp.208 214), New Brunswick, Transaction Books, 1983. C.A. Winters, "The African influence on Indian Agriculture", Journal of African Civilization 3(1), (1981) pp.100-110. C. A. Winters, "The Indus Valley Writing and related scripts of the 3rd millennium BC", 2(1), (1985) pp.13 20. M. Delafosse, "Vai leur langue et leur systeme d'ecriture", 10, (1899). [/QB][/QUOTE]
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