...
Post A Reply
my profile
|
directory
login
|
register
|
search
|
faq
|
forum home
»
EgyptSearch Forums
»
Deshret
»
Xiu are not Mande or taught Maya to write
» Post A Reply
Post A Reply
Login Name:
Password:
Message Icon:
Message:
HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] The comment of Lopez Austin and Lopez Lujan (2001) is irrelevant to this discussion because they make it clear that [i][b]they [/b][/i] decided to “coin a new term” Zuyua for the people who migrated into Yucatan. [QUOTE] Thus,[b] we find ourselves in the uncomfortable and risky need to coin a new term.[/b] According to the written sources, these peoples claimed that their remote ancestors came from the same far away place, Zuyuá or Siwán which, as we will see, was mythical. Since this belief was one of their ideological pillars, however, we propose to cal[l] these people the Zuyuans or Siwans. [/QUOTE]Also, Austen and Lujan do not show any evidence that any of these people claimed that they came from Zuyua. In addition, none of these people according to your quote were related to the Xiu. Moreover, the Nahuatl do not enter Mexico until hundreds of years after the end of Classical Mayan civilization.[/QUOTE][/qb] As usual , there is lot of ink and spam to distract from the key issue. Call it what you will (except Mande) the waves of people moving into Yucatan around a 1000 A.D. included the Itzas, the Cocoms AND THE XIU (you lie when you claim I excluded the Xiu from these groups-- read my post more carefully. In any event your Mande supposedly arrived 1200 B.C. [b]2000 years before the events in Yucatan we are referring to.[/b] [QUOTE][qb]You claim that Tutul Xiu is a Mexican word, xiuhtototl “Turquoise bird” in Nahuatl. This is your opinion Tutul Xiu and xiuhtototl are not related.[/QUOTE][/qb] It's interesting-- when you say something its a fact, but when others say something it is their opinion. However there is opinion and [b]informed opinion[/b] i.e. knowledge. I have forgotten more Nahuatl than you will ever knowl but as I quoted above outstanding Mesoamerican scholars (Tozzer, Spinden, Roys, and Morley) agree. [QUOTE][b]The name Tutul Xiu is a Mexican word, xiuhtototl “Turquoise bird” in Nahuatl (BOM from totol”bird” and xiuitl “turqoise”)[/b], according to Spinden.. . . Morley and Roys also point out other evidence of the Mexican origin of the Xiu in the Mexican name of Ah Cuat Xiu, son of Ah Uitz, in the genealogical tree in the Xiu manuscript.. Cuat is a variant of the Nahuatl coatl, and also the crown worn by the founder of the family which strongly suggests the xiuhtzontli or turquoise mosaic crown of the Aztecs which could only be worn by their supreme ruler, the Tlacatecuhtli (Tozzer 1941: 29-30).[/QUOTE]Please provide a documented etymology in Mande for Tutul Xiu All that follows is irrelevant spam What you have never deal with is that [b] si[/b] in Mande is pronounced /si, but in Maya [b]xi [/b] is pronounced as /shi/or proved that your etymology is correct: (Delafosse 1929: 175) says that to pluralize add /u/ to a noun ending in a [b]nasal vowel and to certain pronouns. [si] is not a nasal vowel[/b]. Further on page 176-177 “Generally it is not necessary to use the plural suffix, unless it is needed to clarify the phrase. And [b]one never uses it when it deals with a name or word that explicitly indicate that it concerns several people or things. One omits the suffix when it follows words that convey a collective meaning [/b].—example of not use “the Europeans do not eat dog meat”. [b]Si[/b] as a people is a collective meaning. The following from Delafosse 1929 are the words for “black” p. 546 negro (fara-fi;moro-fi 548 black (adj,) fi-ni 548 black (color) fi; fi-ma 467 family si(high); si(high)-ya Delafosse 1935 lists meanings of [b]si[/b] they are NOT “black, “family” “race” or “descendant” ] p. 648 si (v intran)— passer la nuit (v trans)- make passer la nuit p. 650 si(high)-- (B&D) Sye(high) p. 653 Si (high) – adverbe superlatif de “noir” (fi-nsi(high)—“tout a fait noir”) si (low) and si —breast, udder p. 654 si (low) and se (low) (noun “straight line”; v. intran—“go straight; v trans- guide straight) Meanings of [b]si[/b] in Brauner (1974) follow Si (1)—- kind, type, race (n) Si (2)-- to grind (v) Si (3)-- to sleep, to spend the night Bird, Charles and Kante Mamadou. 1977. list the following: p. 29 Si (n) hair Si (low) (v)--- age, life Si (low) (v)-- to pass. Spend the night p. 41 black---- fi(low)n (adj) p. 51 family--- denbaya (n) [b]Bottom line[/b] On the one hand we have the consensus view of Mesoamerican scholars and contemporaneous archaeological, historical, anthropological, architectural and linguistical evidence. On the other, claims the 1000 years separating Maya writing and Post-Classic Yucatan can be ignored. Claims based on misleading readings of sources and false Mande linguistics. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Instant Graemlins
Instant UBB Code™
What is UBB Code™?
Options
Disable Graemlins in this post.
*** Click here to review this topic. ***
Contact Us
|
EgyptSearch!
(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com
Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3