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Xiu are not Mande or taught Maya to write
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] [ [*]Quiche Malinke-Bambara xab' rain sa ixa? seed ..si uxe root .. sulu, suru [/list] This confirms the connection between Mayan /x/ and Mande /s/. Other loan words in Quiche from Malinke-Bambara include: [list] [*]Quiche Malinke-Bambara saq'e daytime,sunlight sa 'heaven, sky' k'i many .. kika ja lineage, family . ga, gba ja water .. ji q'aq fire ga-ndi palo lake, sea .. ba, b'la k'oto to carve, cut ka k':um squash kula, kura Ba father . fa Ba lord .Ba 'great' (Person) ka 'land,earth' ka 'suffix joined to names of lands,etc. naal parent, .. mother na cah earth, .. land ka (see above) balam jaguar/tiger . balan 'leopard worship' xuku? Boat , canoe kulu k'o:x mask . ku The loan words in Quiche from Malinke-Bambara show the following patterns a------->a c------->s o------->u c------->k u------->a z------->s x ---------s k------->k x--------- k p------->f q------->k ch------>k [/list] . [/qb][/QUOTE]Clyde is shifting tactics, originally claims were that Mande and Maya were genetically related but this caused problems because the initial tool for comparing these languages is the Swadesh word list, which lists basic words that have a low probability of being loansnot the randomly selected words that Winters likes to use. Now he call his correspondences as loans into Ki7che7 to give himself a better cherry picking opportunity. There is no need to even do his correspondences. Loan words are usually items, or things that are foreign or new to the recipient language and there would be no reason for regular shifts, Unless, the sound does not exist in the recipient language, for example words lent form Nahuatl to Spanish- here we have hundreds of examples. Nahuatl has a /tl/ which in Spanish become /te/-coyotl-coyote, popotl-popote, chocolatl-chocolate,petlatl-petate,zacatl-zacate,zapotl-zapote.- this is what a real correspondence looks likenotice the vowels are the same. More important here is that Winters has a time problem Several of his examples actually have proto-Maya roots, i.e. they existed a thousand years before there was a Ki7che7 language. Why would the Maya borrow a name for jaguar which is a native species from African Mande, which doesnt have jaguars? Perhaps what really happened is that say 500 B.C. proto Maya loaned these words to Mande. The list below is English, proto-Maya, Ki7che7, Winters Ki7che7, and Winters Mande. The 7 is the consonant glottal stop that cant be ignored. These cant be loans from Mande because they existed in Maya before there was a Ki7che7 language and before Clydes presumed contact. [list] [*]English ProtoMaya ki7che7 winters winters dog *tz7i7 tz7i7 canoe *tyem , *johm jucub xuku? kulu earth *kab ulew ka7 ka squash *k7uhm k7um k7:um kula, kura lord *7ahjaw ajaw ba ba mother *naa nan naal na jaguar *b7ahlam balδm balam balan sun, day *q7iihng q7ij saq7e sa [/list] Brown, C. H. and Wichmann, S. 2004 Proto-Mayan Syllable Nuclei, International Journal of American Linguistics 70(2): 128-186. Christiansons Ki7che7 dictionary [url] http://www.famsi.org/mayawriting/dictionary/christenson/quidic_complete.pdf[/URL Kaufman, T. and Justeson, J. 2003 A Preliminary Mayan Etymological Dictionary http://www.famsi.org/reports/01051/pmed.pdf Still a try to shift the focus from the fact that Maya x /ch/ is NOT mande s/s/. [/qb][/QUOTE]The Olmec are the Mother Culture of Mexico. The Olmec spoke a Mande lanbguage. As a result, the Olmec influence on Mayan languages preceeds the founding of the Mayan Classical Civilizations which are founded on Olmec prototypes. Many pyramids are of Olmec origin. This is evident in the dragon motifs. [IMG]http://olmec98.net/oldramotif.png[/IMG] This Olmec motif is found on pyramids that were covered over by later Mayan pyramids. These subpyramids were probably built by the Olmec. . [IMG]http://olmec98.net/preclassicpyramid.gif[/IMG] [/qb][/QUOTE]irrelevant spam. Still a try to shift the focus from the fact that Maya x /ch/ is NOT mande s/s/. [/qb][/QUOTE]The Mayan /x/ is pronounced /sh/ , not /ch/. What you wrote does not change the fact that regular correspondence exist between Mayan /x/ and Mande /s/. The Quichean terms compared below come from [b]Campbell,Lyle (1977), Quichean linguistic prehistory [/b],Berkeley : University of California Press.University of California publications in linguistics. v. 81 As noted earlier the Quiche words beginning with /x/ correspond to words borrowed from Malinke-Bambara by Mayan speakers, with an initial /s/ e.g., [list] [*]Quiche Malinke-Bambara xab' rain sa ixa? seed ..si uxe root .. sulu, suru [/list] This confirms the connection between Mayan /x/ and Mande /s/. We are talking about the Mande origin of writing. You have proven by your own post that Malinke-Bambara Si means race, etc. Brauner (1974) Si (1)- kind, type, race (n) Delafosse, Si (high) adverbe superlatif de noir(superlative for black). Below Delafosse Malinke-Bambara 'si' = collective meanings family, race, descendants etc . [IMG]http://olmec98.net/siDe.jpg[/IMG] I have also shown how the Mayan terms for writing are of Mande origin. There is a clear prevalence of an African substratum for the origin of writing among the Maya. All the experts agree that the Olmec people probably gave writing to the Maya. Mayanist agree that the the Proto Maya term for "write" is <*c'ihb'> and probably *c'ib'. [list] [*]Yucatec c'i:b' Chorti c'ihb'a Mam c'i:b'at Lacandon c'ib' Chol c'hb'an Teco c'i:b'a Itza c'ib' Chontal c'ib' Ixil c'ib' Mopan c'ib' Tzeltalan c'b' [/list] Thus we have Proto Mayan *c'ihb' and *c'ib'. This /c/ in Mayan is often pronounced like the hard Spainish /c/ and has a /s/ sound. C.H. Brown in "Hieroglyphic literacy in ancient Mayaland: inferences from linguistics data", , 32 (4), (1991, pp.489 495) argues that *c'ihb may be the ancient Mayan term for writing but, it can not be Proto mayan because writing did not appear among the Maya until 600 B.C. This was 1500 years after the break up of the Proto Maya . This view is supported by Mayan traditions recorded by Landa and discussed by B. Stross in "Maya Hierogyphic writing and Mixe Zoquean", 24(1), (1982 , pp.73 134) all point to the extra Maya origin of writing. This word for 'write' is probably of Olmec/Manding origin. The Proto Manding term for writing is: *se'be', *safa^. [list] [*]Malinke se'be' Serere safe Bambara se'be' Susu se'be Dioula se'we' Samo se'be Sarakole safa W. Malinke safa [/list] As usual you don't know what you're talking about. You are trying to use the Bandwagon propaganda technique to support your lies. Just because you contend that certain people agree on a particular phenomena does not make them right. For example, Europeans for hundreds of years believed the earth was flat , when it is round. Your opinions are groundless. You are indeed a LIAR. . [/QB][/QUOTE]
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