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Xiu are not Mande or taught Maya to write
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [qb] Clyde Winters claims that the Mande, Tutul Xiu, taught the Maya how to write. [/qb][/QUOTE]So the Mande had a script with which they tutored the native Maya? [/qb][/QUOTE][b] Bi-Lingual Olmec Mayan Text [/b] [IMG]http://www.olmec98.net/biling1.gif[/IMG] . . Support for my decipherment of the Olmec writing comes from a bilingual Mayan-Olmec/Mande inscribed brick from Comalcalco. Comalcalco is a Mayan archaeological site found in Tobasco. Here archaeologist Neil Steede found over 4000 inscribed bricks at the Comalcalco site. [IMG]http://www.geocities.ws/Athens/Academy/8919/comal4.jpg[/IMG] The Comalcalco site encompasses around 360 pyramids. Here almost all of the structures were built of fired bricks (tabiques) . Between 1977-1978, 9 of these pyramids were excavated. Comalcalco is located in the State of Tabasco. It was built by the Chontal. It is the only city in Mexico built entirely of brick. [IMG]http://www.geocities.ws/Athens/Academy/8919/comal3.jpg[/IMG] Comalcalco means "in the house of earthenware" in Nahuatl This Mayan site has interesting architecture. For example, "The Great Acropolis" probably used for civil and religious purposes. In addition to building fine temples, walls and altars, there are fine "stucco" used to face their constructions, which resemble images on the sub-pyramids of many Mayan sites, that have analogy to Olmec iconography. [IMG]http://www.geocities.ws/Athens/Academy/8919/comal2.jpg[/IMG] Neil Steede became interested in the bricks in 1979. He obtained permission to photograph the bricks from the National Institute of Anthropology and History (NIAH). Many of the inscribed bricks from the Comalcalco ruins were published by Neil Steede in a bilingual book entitled Preliminary Catalogue of the Comalcalco Bricks. Brick T1-452 R16 is a very special brick. This brick has a bilingual Mayan-Olmec inscription. In this inscription we see a Mayan inscription , and beside it on the right hand side an Olmec/Malinke inscription . The Olmec writing used on this brick is the plain Olmec style of writing. The plain Olmec style of writing was usually used to inscribe celts and other Olmec artifacts. On the far right hand side we see two additional characters. These characters also are written in the plain Olmec style of writing (The Decipherment of Olmec Writing). [IMG]http://www.olmec98.net/biling2.gif[/IMG] Steede was advised by Dr. Alexander von Wuthenau, to send me copies of the bricks to determine if I could identify the writing on some of the bricks that appeared to Steede as similar to scripts used in the Old World in advance of his publication of the Comalcalco Catalogue. After an examination of the photographs I spotted the bilingual Olmec-Maya inscription. I immediately recognized that the T1-452 R16 brick appeared to be include both Mayan and Olmec inscriptions. To test this hypothesis, I suggested to Steede that he decipher the Mayan inscription , and I would decipher the Olmec passage which had been partially defaced. Steede agreed to this test. He then divided the inscription into three segments (we were both to decipher) and we began our decipherments. Below is the division of the T1-452 R16 text: [IMG]http://www.olmec98.net/biling4.gif[/IMG] I sent a copy of my decipherment of T1-452 R16 to Steede. On this decipherment I include a translation of the Malinke inscription on the right-hand side of the T1-452 R16, and also the Olmec/Mande signs found inside of the Mayan glyphs. Please note in my decipherment that I had placed on this chart a breakdown of the Olmec/Mande signs and the plain Olmec signs found inside of the Mayan glyphs (as well). Below is a copy of the decipherment I sent to Steede in 1984. [IMG]http://www.olmec98.net/biling4.gif[/IMG] Translation/Transliteration Olmec Plain Signs [list] [*]A be ki a-ni gyo fe Ti lu [/list] Thou exist incomplete. He is the manifestation of life, a talisman in this proximity. Give birth to this [funerary] habitation. [img] http://olmec98.net/biling3.gif[/img] Translation/Transliteration Olmec Signs inside Mayan Glyphs [list] [*]Ku Fe The Jaguar god (of the underworld) Te ba Be Tu [/list] The person of considerable dignity is void of breath. [He goes to me the] Jaguar God. [He] is no longer alive/ or Powerful Righteousness! [His] Place of rest exist here. Steede wrote me back (28-3-84) that his interpretation of the Mayan signs was almost identical to my translation of the Mayan and Olmec/Mande signs. He wrote the following: " 1A shows a face with slashed eyes (blind or non=seeing), nostriless nose (non-breathing) and "clamped shut" mouth ( non-speaking). This would indicate death alright, but below the cartouche is added onto by two breath scrolls on each side of an intricate sacraficial blade. These breath (or speak) scrolls indicate that the person in question has expressed that he feels as though he is "dead" spiritually and wishes t make a self-sacrifice. 1B underlines the fact that he is dead, but note the "S" in the ear of the jaguar. This indicates pentiteuce, or repentence. Therefore, though the person is "dead" spiritually he has heard and accepted repentence. Therefore 1A and 1B together would read extremely similar to your hieroglyphic translation, but almost exactly as your Manding translation. The person in question is considered to be incomplete until he accepts the priesthood. 2 is identical to your Manding translation and similar to your hieroglyphic interpretation. The part to the right is a dorsal fish fin. I don't have any notes infront of me but I believe it is Stela 1 of Izapa which shows that Quetzalcoatl "fishes" for all types of fish (men). This stela also implicates that the dorsal fish fin is associated with priesthood. Here we can see the fish fin "hatching" from an "egg?" or from "inner self?" The person in question is being born again as a priest. 3. I can't understand, but your rendering would seem to be correct. He is now at rest because he is (complete)." This translation of the Mayan side of this bilingual brick from Comalcalco , and other inscribed bricks from this site indicate that it was probably a Mayan College where scribes learned Mayan writing and possibily pyramid construction. The bilingual text on T1-452 R16, indicates that the Mayan scribes had to learn how to write Olmec inscriptions and translate them into Mayan. The fact that the Olmec inscriptions were defaced indicate that the Mayan scribes while they studied Mayan writing first wrote a piece in Olmec and then wrote the same inscription in the Mayan language(s) Below we see T1-452 R16. If you look carefully at the brick we see two Olmec signs written vertically. Reading from top to bottom we find the following signs Mayan. The interpretation of Mayan in Olmec is the following: "It's done well--full of life". These signs appear to indicate a grade or comment on the brick made by the instructor. This supports the view that Comalcalco was a College, where Mayan initiates into the priesthood and scribal classes learned how to write Mayan hieroglyphics. . We know the name of the Olmec from the Maya. Landa noted that the Yucatec Maya claimed that they got writing from a group of foreigners called Tutul Xiu from Nonoulco (Tozzer, 1941). The Olmec originated writing in Mexico., so we can assume that the term Tutul Xiu refer to the Olmec. The Tutul Xi were probably Olmecs. The term Tutul Xiu, can be translated into Olmec which is a member of the Manding Superfamily of languages as follows: Tutul, "Very good subjects of the Order". Xiu, "The Shi (/the race)". "The Shis (who) are very good Subjects of the cult-Order". The term Shi, is probably related to the Manding term Si, which was also used as an ethnonym. Since Si/Xi was used as an ethnonym, the Tutul Xi-u were the Olmec people. Thusly I call the Olmec by their own name:[b] Xi[/b]. Reference Landa, D. de. (1978). Yucatan before and after the Conquest. (Trans. by) William Gates. New York: Dover Publications. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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