...
Post A Reply
my profile
|
directory
login
|
register
|
search
|
faq
|
forum home
»
EgyptSearch Forums
»
Deshret
»
peer review demolishes Winters M-173
» Post A Reply
Post A Reply
Login Name:
Password:
Message Icon:
Message:
HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] Klyosov in criticizing my article exagerates what I wrote. He implies that I was trying to decieve the readers about the frequency of R1 in Africa. This is false. I specifically stated the frequency of R1 among African populations throughout my 2011 paper. [QUOTE] Y-chromosome R1 is found throghout Africa. The pristine form of R1-M173 is only found in Africa (Coia et al, 2005; Cruciani et al, 2002, 2010). The age of ychromosome R is 27ky. Most researchers believe that R(M173) is 18.5 ky.There is a great diversity of the macrohaplogroup R in Africa (See Figure 1). Ychromosome R is characterized by M207/V45. The V45 mutation is found among African populations ( Cruciani et al ,2010). ISOGG 2010 Y-DNA haplogroup tree makes it clear that V45 is phylogenetically equivalent to M207.The most common R haplogroup in Africa is R1 (M173). The predominant haplogroup is R1b (Berniell-Lee et al,2009; Coia et al, 2005; Winters, 2010b; Wood et al, 2009). Cruciani et al (2010) discovered new R1b mutations including V7, V8, V45, V69, and V88. Geography appears to play a significant role in the distribution of haplogroup R in Africa. Cruciani et al (2010) has renamed the R*- M173 (R P-25) in Africa V88. The TMRCA of V88 was 9200-5600 kya (Cruciani et al, 2010). Y-chromosome V88 (R1b1a) has its highest frequency among Chadic speakers, while the carriers of V88 among Niger-Congo speakers (predominately Bantu people) range between 2-66% ( Cruciani et al, 2010; Bernielle-Lee et al, 2009). Haplogroup V88 includes the mutations M18, V35 and V7. Cruciani et al (2010) revealed that R-V88 is also carried by Eurasians including the distinctive mutations M18, V35 and V7.[b] R1b1-P25 is found in Western Eurasia. Haplogroup R1b1* is found in Africa at various frequencies. BerniellLee et al (2009) found in their study that 5.2% carried Rb1*. The frequency of R1b1* among the Bantu ranged from 2-20. The bearers of R1b1* among the Pygmy populations ranged from 1-25% (Berniell-Lee et al, 2009). The frequency of R1b1 among Guinea-Bissau populations was 12% (Carvalho et al,2010).[/b] [/QUOTE]As you can see I did admit that only 5.2% of the pygmy carried R1. In relation to R-M269 in Africa I wrote: [QUOTE] Around 0.1 of Sub Saharan Africans carry R1b1b2. Wood et al (2009) found that Khoisan (2.2%) and Niger-Congo (0.4%) speakers carried the R-M269 y-chromosome. The Khoisan also carry RM343 (R1b) and M 198 (R1a1) (Naidoo et al., 2010) the archaeological and linguistic data indicate the successful colonization of Asia by SubSaharan Africans from Nubia 5-4kya (Winters, 2007,2008, 2010c). The archaeological evidence makes it clear that around 4kya intercultural style artifacts connected Africa and Eurasia (Winters, 2007,2010c). [/QUOTE]As a result, I did not attempt to decieve anyone about the frequency of R1 in Africa as the author implies. In fact recent research on y-haplogroups in Africa suggest that R1-M269 is also widespread in Africa. [IMG]http://olmec98.net/m269.png[/IMG] Above is a figure from Gonzalez et al. The Gonzalez et al article found that 10 out of 19 subjects in the study carried R1b1-P25 or M269. This is highly significant because it indicates that 53% of the R1 carriers in this study were M269, this finding is further proof of the widespread nature of this so-called Eurasian genes in Africa among populations that have not mated with Europeans. [/qb][/QUOTE]In a later post I show that you are misinterpreting/misquoting these sources. R-M269 is [b]NOT[/b] African but European and the only place with significant R1 is Cameroon where the haplotype is R-V88. [/qb][/QUOTE]LOL. How can I be misquoting Gonzalez et al (2012), the figure is above and you can count the number of M269 subjects found in the study yourself. . [IMG]http://olmec98.net/carriers249.jpg[/IMG] . [/qb][/QUOTE]Yes, and they are NOT 53% of the haplogroups. If you look at Table 1 in the paper, p. 326, Gonzales gives you both the raw numbers and the proper percentages: number percentage V88 Ribia* 9 (8.04%) M269 R1b1b2 10 (8.93) You are still misquoting the true values given in your sources. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Instant Graemlins
Instant UBB Code™
What is UBB Code™?
Options
Disable Graemlins in this post.
*** Click here to review this topic. ***
Contact Us
|
EgyptSearch!
(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com
Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3