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peer review demolishes Winters M-173
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [qb] In the Table I cite the source and the frequency. Only a fool and moron would accept your statements as valid given the fact you have repeatedly shown that the figures are correct. Stop trying to steal the history of Black people. [/qb][/QUOTE]You can whirl , you can spin, you can emit lots of spam BUT there is [b]no[/b] R-M269 in Africa, R-V88 (R1b1) is only present in a limited area in Africa, there is [b]no[/b] R-M173 (R1) in Africa. There is nothing to refute. Something has to proven before it can be refuted. It is up to the proposer to produce the [b]evidence for[/b] a proposal. You have only produced misquotes. Please quote word-for-word refereed papers that say "M-269 is widespread in Africa" "M-173 is widespread in Africa, "R=P25*(R1b1) is widespread in Africa. [/qb][/QUOTE][QUOTE] The Y chromosome Alu polymorphism (YAP, also called M1) defines the deep-rooted haplogroup D/E of the global Y-chromosome phylogeny [1]. This D/E haplogroup is further branched into three sub-haplogroups DE*, D and E (Figure 1). The distribution of the D/E haplogroup is highly regional, and the three subgroups are geographically restricted to certain areas, therefore informative in tracing human prehistory (Table [b]1). The sub-haplogroup DE*, presumably the most ancient lineage of the D/E haplogroup was only found in Africans from Nigeria [2], supporting the "Out of Africa" hypothesis about modern human origin.[/b] The sub-haplogroup E (E-M40), defined by M40/SRY4064 and M96, was also suggested originated in Africa [3-6], and later dispersed to Middle East and Europe about 20,000 years ago [3,4]. Interestingly, the sub-haplogroup D defined by M174 (D-M174) is East Asian specific with abundant appearance in Tibetan and Japanese (30–40%), but rare in most of other East Asian populations and populations from regions bordering East Asia (Central Asia, North Asia and Middle East) (usually less than 5%) [5-7]. Under D-M174, Japanese belongs to a separate sub-lineage defined by several mutations (e.g. M55, M57 and M64 etc.), which is different from those in Tibetans implicating relatively deep divergence between them [1]. The fragmented distribution of D-M174 in East Asia seems not consistent with the pattern of other East Asian specific lineages, i.e. O3-M122, O1-M119 and O2-M95 under haplogroup O [8,9].[/QUOTE]--Hong Shi et al. 2008: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7007/6/45 [QUOTE] Further refinement awaits the finding of new markers especially within paragroup E3a*-M2. [b]The microsatellite profile of the DE* individual is one mutational step away from the allelic state described for Nigerians [/b](DYS390*21, DYS388 not tested; [37], therefore suggesting a common ancestry but not elucidating the phylogenetics. [/QUOTE]Haplogroup DE* in Guinea-Bissau: Y-chromosomal diversity in the population of Guinea-Bissau: a multiethnic perspective http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/7/124 [QUOTE] There has been considerable debate on the geographic origin of the human Y chromosome Alu polymor- phism (YAP). Here we report a new, very rare deep-rooting haplogroup within the YAP clade, together with data on other deep-rooting YAP clades. [b]The new haplogroup, found so far in only five Nigerians, is the least-derived YAP haplogroup according to currently known binary markers. [/b]However, because the interior branching order of the Y chromosome genealogical tree remains unknown, it is impossible to impute the origin of the YAP clade with certainty. We discuss the problems presented by rare deep-rooting lineages for Y chromosome phylogeography.[/QUOTE]Haplogroup DE* in Nigerians: Rare Deep-Rooting Y Chromosome Lineages in Humans: Lessons for Phylogeography http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1462739/pdf/14504230.pdf Y-DNA haplogroup R-M207 [b]is believed to have arisen approximately 27,000 years ago in Asia.[/b] The two currently defined subclades are R1 and R2. [QUOTE]‘‘Out of Africa’’ haplogroups. All Y-clades that are not exclusively African belong to the macro-haplogroup [b]CT, which is defined by mutations M168, M294 and P9.1 [14,31] and is subdivided into two major clades, DE [/b]and [i]CF [1,14].[/i] In a recent study [16], sequencing of two chromosomes belonging to haplogroups C and R, led to the identification of 25 new mutations, eleven of which were in the C-chromosome and seven in the R-chromosome. [b]Here, the seven mutations which were found to be shared by chromosomes of haplogroups C and R [16], were also found to be present in one DE sample (sample 33 in Table S1), and positioned at the root of macro-haplogroup CT (Figure 1 and Figure S1)[/b] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3492319/figure/pone-0049170-g001/ Figure S1 Structure of the macro-haplogroup CT. For details on mutations see legend to Figure 1. Dashed lines indicate putative branchings (no positive control available). The position of V248 (haplogroup C2) and V87 (haplogroup C3) compared to mutations that define internal branches was not determined. Note that mutations V45, V69 and V88 have been previously mapped (Cruciani et al. 2010; Eur J Hum Genet 18∶800–807). (TIF) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3492319/bin/pone.0049170.s001.tif [/QUOTE]--Fulvio Cruciani et al. Molecular Dissection of the Basal Clades in the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree (2011) [QUOTE][b]"haplogroup CF and DE molecular ancestors first evolved inside Africa and subsequently contributed as Y chromosome founders to pioneering migrations that successfully colonized Asia.[/b] While not proof, the DE and CF bifurcation (Figure 8d ) is consistent with independent colonization impulses possibly occurring in a short time interval."[/QUOTE]Use of Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA Population Structure in Tracing Human Migrations --Peter A. Underhill , Toomas Kivisild - 2007 The Mal'ta boy didn't fell from the sky, onto Siberia near Lake Baikal? [/qb][/QUOTE]Correct. Geneticists like to look at haplogroups in isolation. The archaeology makes it clear that the first Europeans came from Africa and they were Khoisan, because the same culutral traditions of Cro-Magnon man in Europe were found in Southern Africa. It is clear that Mal'ta man's population did not just fall from the sky. [/qb][/QUOTE]Yep, [QUOTE]"No southwest Asian specific clades for M1 or U6 were discovered. U6 and M1 frequencies in North Africa, the Middle East and Europe DO NOT FOLLOW similar patterns, and their sub-clade divisions do not appear to be compatible with their shared history reaching back to the Early Upper Palaeolithic." [/QUOTE]--Erwan Pennarun, Toomas Kivisild (2012) Divorcing the Late Upper Palaeolithic demographic histories of mtDNA haplogroups M1 and U6 in Africa [QUOTE]“... the M1 presence in the Arabian peninsula signals a predominant East African influence since the Neolithic onwards.“[/QUOTE]-- Petraglia, M and Rose, J (2010). The Evolution of Human Populations in Arabia: [/QB][/QUOTE]
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