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peer review demolishes Winters M-173
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] The Dravidians originated in Africa. Dravidians carry the M1 haplogroup. In addition,in Cameroon we find carriers of R1a. In addition to carriers of R1a in Cameroon; the Dravidian languages are still spoken today in Cameroon see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk Kivisild et al (1999), admits that Dravidians carry M1, which is an African haplogroup. This article is just as relevant today as it was in 1999. People carry a particular gene do not just disappear. The Eastern African hg M1, HVS-I signature motif is 16,129, 16,189, 16,223, 16,249, and 16,311. In the Kivisild et al figure below we see the same motif. The mutations are shown less 16,000. Here you can clearly see:mutations 129,189, 223 and 311, in Indian M1, in Figure 3, of Kivisild et al, 1999. [IMG]http://olmec98.net/kivisild1999.gif[/IMG] In the Kivisild et al 1999 study of Indian mtDNA around 15% carried haplogroup M1. See: http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild1999b.pdf . [IMG]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xeKj-toC3Uc/0.jpg[/IMG] In Table 4, Kivisild et al, 1999, we see the frequency of M1 in India.There are 217 million Dravidian speakers in India, if we compare the frequency of M1 carriers to the Dravidian speaking community around 32 million people carry M1. The frequency of 15% of the Dravidians carrying M1 shows the presence of M1 in India. As a result, your arguments are false and invalid. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl: [qb] In 1999 potential confusion arose because 2 papers were published that called certain sequences M1. One had to change names, and Phylotree designated that the one carrying M16126 would now be named M3. M1 16129 16189 16249 16311 M3 16126 Thus, it is absolutely clear that, at least since the year 2000, mutation at 16126 has designated haplogroup M3 and mutation at 16129 designates haplogroup M1. This is what you see if you visit phylotre- the official naming site. Is this what you questioned? [/qb][/QUOTE]This argument is invalid. It implies that Phylotree promotes lies to maintain the status quo, and white supremacy. Polytree is promoting lies and white supremacy because if the Eastern African hg M1, HVS-I signature motif is 16,129, 16,189, 16,223, 16,249, and 16,311 . As a result, when the motif is found outside Africa, the haplogroup remains M1, even if we find the 16126 mutation in Indian M1. Clearly Phylotree is unreliable and based on Euroocentrism and white supremacy. This is obvious given the way R-M173 in Africa was changed into V88, and 207 in Africa was changed into V45. All of these efforts are simply misdirection aimed at containing Negroes in Africa, and separating Dravidian speakers from Africans. Someone at Phylotree decided to name M1 in India, M3. Just because someone changed the name for Indian M1, does not erase M1 from India. You admit yourself that Phylotree is in charge of regulating nomenclature . Phylotree is not trying to prevent mixups, they are just trying to maintain the status quo and white supremacy. Researchers maintain that the Eastern African HVS-I signature motifs are 16,129, 16,189, 16,249, and 16,311. This motiff is found in Indian M1, so it can not be changed into M3, because M3 already existed when Kivisild et al, was published in 1999. . [IMG]http://olmec98.net/kivisild1999.gif[/IMG] Gonzalez (2007) admits that M1 was found in India and cites Kivisild et al (1999). Ana Gonzalez (2007) wrote The central HVSI haplotype (1612916189162231624916311) has been found only once in northwestern India [27]. Another possible Indian M1 candidate is the derived sequence: 160861612916223162491625916311 [28]. The other M1 lineages have different mutations. But that does not change the fact that they are M1. [IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_TFdF--fOnx8/S2Bl7_V7FMI/AAAAAAAAAfo/PtNigphFVGk/s320/HgM1.jpg[/IMG] . The presence of one transition, 126, in Indian M1, does not deny its existence as M1, since it is the only M haplogroup outside of Africa that carries the entire M1 motiff. Luckily, we have the original paper that proves that M1 in India exist. Phylotree is just trying to maintain the myth that Africans and Dravidians are not related, A myth I have destroyed by 1) my papers on M1, 2) the absence of parallel mutation/adaptation as a explanation for the M haplogroups in India, and 3) shared African and Tribal Dravidian HLA-A and HLA-B. If Africans and Dravidians share 9bp,YAP, y-chromosome H, HLA-A and HLA-B, it is only natural that they might carry hg M1. The decision to change the classification of M1 in India, given the M1 transitions in the control region of Indian M1, makes it clear the decision to rename Indian M1, was indeed a conspiracy. http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9048/ng1299440awy8.gif Gonzalez (2007) References: 27.Quintana-Murci L, Chaix R, Wells RS, Behar DM, Sayar H, Scozzari R, Rengo C, Al-Zahery N, Semino O, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Coppa A, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Tyler-Smith C, Qasim Mehdi S, Torroni A, McElreavey K. Where West meets East: The complex mtDNA landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian corridor. Am J Hum Genet. 2004;74:827845. doi: 10.1086/383236. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [Cross Ref] 28.Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha SS, Villems R. The place of the Indian mitochondrial DNA variants in the global network of maternal lineages and the peopling of the Old World. In: Deka R, Papiha SS, editor. Genomic diversity. New York: Kluwer/Academic/Plenum Publishers; 1999. pp. 135152. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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