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The Moors were not black: sudaniya
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by sudaniya: [QB] Tukuler What is the provenance of the postcard? I need the year in which it was released and a source affirming its authenticity. The fact that you could only get two pictures (first one indefinite) demonstrates that they were probably just forcefully conscripted just like the slave soldiers in Moulay Ismail's army. [/QUOTE]One could argue that no blacks were leaders of the slave trade of Europeans in North Africa. Now we look to the portrait of Moulay Ismail's father Moulay Al Sharif (Cherif ) ( "Muley Arsheid Zeriff") His sons include: Moulay Ismail aka Moulay Ibn Sharif (same name as his father but add, full name Moulay Ismail ibn Sharif) and Moulay al-Rashid his half brother [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: Please, Obama's mum is NW Euro. Ismail had no NW Euro parent. His father's impression portrait [IMG]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=489122&t=w[/IMG] [/QUOTE]^ This is supposed to be Moulay Ali Cherif (Sharif) (or "Muley Arsheid Zeriff") considered to have been the founder of the Alaouite Dynasty of Morocco. He is the father. He died in 1659 the artist was a Czechoslovakian named Wenceslaus Hollar his works number some 2740 The date of the print here as shown in the corner is 1670, eleven years AFTER Moulay Ali Cherif died and one year after the artist Wenceslaus Hollar visted Tangier In other words, it is the likeness of Muley Arsheid Zeriff is in the imagination of the artist Tukuler knows this but didn't tell you ________________________________________________ [URL=http://www.ephotobay.com/share/picture-29-95.html] [IMG]http://www.ephotobay.com/image/picture-29-95.png[/IMG][/URL] ^^^ This Moulay Ismaïl Ibn Sharif second ruler of the Moroccan Alaouite dynasty. Again his father is sometimes also called Moulay Sharif but no Ibn or Islmail He died in 1727 A year before he died the illustration was made, the 1726 German Edition of A Journey to Mequinez; The Residence of the Present Emperor of Fez and Morocco. On the Occasion of Commodore Stewart’s Embassy Thither for the Redemption of the British Captives in the Year 1721. by John Windus Here it is http://books.google.com/books?id=v15VAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false ^ scroll to the first page Reise nach Mequinetz, Der Residentz des heutigen Käysers von Fetz und ... By John Windus 1726 Windus was a member of the British delegation, and was sent in 1721 by King George I to the court of the Moroccan ruler Mulai Ismael, to conclude a peace treaty and to rid the English slave. Morocco, heavily involved in the piracy of the North African states towards the Europeans, held at that time caught about 1,100 Christians. Stuart was able to sign a contract in Ceuta, whereupon 296 Englishmen (including 25 captains) have been released. - This book is one of the first travel works that report exclusively on Morocco, with interesting observations about the country and people, life at court, etc. - "No work on Marocco had hitherto Appeared in English, with the exception of the meager, West Barbary '(1671) of L. Addison The description of the manners of the people renders the book, a curiosity ',. pronounced as it what by Boswell "(Cox). - The partly folded several times copper with great views of Tetuan, Alcazar, Meknes (2), a Roman temple ruin and a plan of Fes. The copper engraved portrait of the ruler Muley Ismael missing in the English edition published in 1725. - Gay 1294; Paulitschke 692; Play Fair 342: Cox I, 370 (English edition); Kainbacher 454 ("very rare"). Tags: Morocco, Fez, Meknes This is a portrait of Moulay Ismail Sharif's half brother Al-Rashid died in 1672 http://media.vam.ac.uk/media/thira/collection_images/2008BU/2008BU5224_jpg_l.jpg [IMG]http://media.vam.ac.uk/media/thira/collection_images/2008BU/2008BU5224_jpg_l.jpg[/IMG] Moulay Al-Rachid ( "Cherif Muley-Arxid") (died 1672) by Parisian artist Nicolas de Larmessin made 1661-1689 (I don't know if he visited Morocco) http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ A collection of portraits of European, Asian and African royalty, and French ministers of state and nobility. The portraits include: 'Tun-Min, roy de la Chine'; 'Aureng-Zebe, roy des Indes orientales'; 'Xogun, empereur du Japon'; 'Idalcansi, roy de Gouzarata ou Camboya'; 'Le Grand Negus - ou Préte-Ian, empereur des Abissins'; 'Le grand roy Mono-Motapa'; 'Le Grand Mogul, ou l'empereur d'Indostan'; 'L'empereur de Calaminhan'; 'Le Grand Cam, ou empereur de Tartarie'; 'Mustapha Coul-Oglov, Grand Visir'; 'Coprogli-Achmet Pacha, Grand Vizir'; 'Le Grand Cherif Mouley Sémein ou Ismael, roy de Maroc'; 'Ioane Aléxovvitz [&] Peter Aléxovvitz Czars'; 'Cherif Muley-Arxid, roy de Tafilete, Fez, Maroc...'; 'Alexei-Michaelovits, Czaar et Grand Duc de Moscovie'; 'Le grand sultan Soliman, IIIe... empereur des Turcs'. Larmessin's own portrait of Moulay Ismail [IMG]http://media.vam.ac.uk/media/thira/collection_images/2008BU/2008BU5227_jpg_l.jpg[/IMG] Le Grand Cherif Mouley Sémein ou Ismael; Moulay Ismaïl Ibn Sharif [IMG]http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/10/03/41/2111587/5/628x471.jpg[/IMG] European slaves in the Moroccan slave market [IMG]http://www.ephotobay.com/image/picture-33-26.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.ephotobay.com/image/picture-34-31.png[/IMG] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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