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What happened to the Black Chinese
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by jantavanta: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [qb] As usual Clyde comes up with a convoluted argument and says the oldest Chinese remains were "Negroid" but then turns around and says that the earliest Chinese dynasties were Africans.... Black people generally are the oldest populations in Asia, as evidenced by New Guinea and Australia, along with other aboriginal groups in South Asia. This "African" connection to black populations in Asia because of "features" is simply absurd. The genetic lineages of these people are Asian as one would expect of very ancient aboriginal populations. But of course that wont stop Clyde from trying to connect every black population in the world in history to Mande speaking Africans.... [/qb][/QUOTE]The entire Black populations of the Americas and Asia, are of African Origin. Clyde has done well by connecting every Black population in the world to Africans. His using the Mande, is the language he has access to. Others have used Igbo language in Nigeria. [/qb][/QUOTE]No they aren't. The DNA of the ancient aboriginal blacks in the Americas do not match any African population. The original populations of the Americas came from Asia and the initial groups were aboriginal black Asians from various parts of Asia and the Pacific. I don't know why folks keep insisting that somehow black skin outside of Africa indicates RECENT African ancestry. Skin color and features are tied to the environment and there are environments outside Africa that support populations with those features. Black folks in Asia are Asians. They are aboriginal, meaning been in place since the original OOA migrations 60,000 years ago. Australian Aborigines are not recent African migrants. Solomon Islanders are not recent African migrants. The Aboriginal Populations of Thailand, the Philippines and so forth are not recent African migrants..... That said, it doesn't mean there hasn't been African contact in these areas since OOA. It just means those contacts don't represent the basis of or reason for black skin in those areas. For example, Swahili trade with Asia. Bororo Indian Brazil: [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Bororo001.jpg/751px-Bororo001.jpg[/IMG] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bororo Not Africans no matter how they look, their DNA is primarily Type O. [/qb][/QUOTE]jantavanta is right. You don't know what you're talking about. North American Native Americans are mainly mtDNA M (A and D4/M1) and y-Chromosome R1. Both haplogroups are carried by Africans. Haplogroup Q, is common to South American Native Americans. The D haplogroup is nothing more than a African M haplogroup. The sub-clade D4, is the Asian name for the M1 haplogroup. Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1 Haplogroup M was a common Paleoamerican haplogroup. Paleoamericans carried haplogroup M. the 5000 year old skeletons from China Lake, British Columbia carried the M haplogroup (Malhi et al., 2007). This was confirmed by Malhi et al (2007), who found that the skeletons belong to haplogroup M, exhibiting the AluI site gain at np 10397. He was unable to match the China Lake skeletons’ mtDNA to haplogroup C, D, or sub-haplogroup M7, M8, or M9. Although, these haplogroups are assigned an Asian origin Africans also carry these M subclades including , for example, haplogroups A and M7. Some Native American present Sub-Saharan African admixture. The Mande speakers carry mtDNA haplogroup A, which is common among Mexicans namely the Mixe and Mixtecs . In addition to the Mande speaking people of West Africa, Southeast Africa Africans also carry mtDNA A. Naia of Mexico was D1 and Anzick child was also D4. Most contemporary Native Americans carry mtDNA that belongs to the M macrohaplogroup, namely A and B. The D haplogroup , is the name for M1, in Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002). Haplotypes with HVSI transitions defining 16129-16223-16249-16278-16311-16362; and 16129-16223-16234-16249-16211-16362 have been found in Thailand and among the Han Chinese (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002) and these were originally thought to be members of Haplogroup M1. However, on the basis of currently available FGS sequences, carriers of these markers are now labled D4a branch of Haplogroup D . Given the transitions in haplogroup D, it is the most widespread branch of M1 in East Asia (Fucharoen et al, 2001; Yao et al, 2002). The transitions 16129,16189,16249 and 16311 are known to be recurrent in various branches of Haplogroup M, especially M1 and D4. Due to these transitions we can argue that Native Americans carrying D, are carrying African haplogroup M, especially M1 in the case of haplogroup D4. References: Fucharoen G, Fucharoen S, Horai S.(2001). Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism in Thailand. J Hum Genet , 46:115-125. Malhi , R. et al. (2006) Mitochondrial haplogroup M discovered in prehistoric North Am J Arch Scien 34 (2007), http://public.wsu.edu/~bmkemp/publications/pubs/Malhi_et_al_2007.pdf ; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222693166_Haplogroup_M_discovered_in_prehistoric_North_America Yao YG, Kong QP, Bandelt HJ, Kivisild T, Zhang YP.(2002). Phylogeographic differentiation of mitochondrial DNA in Han chinese. Am J Hum Genet , 70:635-651. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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