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Could this be a rendition of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mansfield9: That is not an example of the use of "black" as an adjective to mean pale. That is the definition that was already posted, and was being discussed in this thread. What I am asking you is for a literary reference of the "use" of the word to mean "pale" in some way. I'll repeat, I would be interested to see an example of this, but I'm sure you have never seen one, much like every other person on the planet. [/QUOTE]I don't know why you keep asking about paleness. That is a straw man argument. Most people who call themselves "white do not consider themselves "pale" [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mansfield9: If you want to suggest black has loose meanings today, or even in the past, that is fine. But to suggest a white man would be described as having a black complexion will not pass. [/QUOTE]Will not pass what? That is not an argument [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mansfield9: For your remembrance: What we have to do is use common sense, since people like to interpret it in different ways. [/QUOTE]My remembrance is that "common sense" in one era does not always correspond to "common sense" in another era and "common sense" is very much a subjective term to begin with. Historical research is what we should be using not opinions we call "common sense" [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mansfield9: In the 16th century a "Black Flag" flown by pirates was "black" of color. A "Blackbird" was "black" of color. "Black-browed" was to have eyebrows "black" of color. "Black Rod" was a name given to the usher of the Order of the Garter for the rod he held that was "black" of color. A "Blackamoor" (Black as a Moor) was a negro, which is a person that is "black" of complexion. A "Blackberry" is a berry that is "black" of color. "Blackface" meant to polish your face a "black" color. And on and on. You are not going to find instances of black used as an adjective to describe something pale or white. [/QB][/QUOTE]You are not getting it. I have already demonstrated that color terms are not accurate when applied to people and are more recently used as labels for race. Objects are given proper color descriptions, milk chocolate is brown and charcoal is black. Yet brown people are often called black and people called white do not resemble a sheet of paper. Most people called white do not consider themselves "pale" and "paleness" is often an interpretation based on a given person's subjective comparison to their own complexion. So it makes no sense to talk about the color of snow or salt, literally white and assume that people referred to as "white" are literally white People called "white" are not literally white in color and such persons in earlier periods are sometimes said to have "black" complexions. In such cases from the slightest tint away from being pale they could be called "black" as well as people darker. These texts from John Macky prove that because when we look at paintings of these people there is no evidence that the paintings are forgeries or fakes. And if there was a massive conspiracy to make thousands of fake paintings wouldn't they also have destroyed or revised all copies of John Macky's Memoirs of the secret services ? On the other hand in assuming things fake with no evidence why would we assume Memoirs of the Secret Services, not even published while he was alive, to be real? -the double standards you keep applying [/QB][/QUOTE]
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