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Did the Carthaginians have coins?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the questioner: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the questioner: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by the questioner: [QB] so basically none of you can prove that Carthage had coins [/QUOTE]Carthage was founded by Phoenicians The Phoenicians came from what is now Lebanon They had coins called Tyrian shekels and these were used in Carthage the coins bore the likeness of the Phoenician god Melqart or Baal, accepted as the Olympian Herakles by the Greeks and derided as Beelzebub by Jews in the time of the Seleucids, wearing the laurel reflecting his role in the Tyrian games and the ancient Olympic Games. [/qb][/QUOTE]i don't want no regurgitation you must remember that the Phoenicians are not Greeks so coins would not be used by them the gods and goddesses that are depicted on the coins of Phoenicia are Greek and roman gods not Phoenician (Phoenicians did not wear "laurels") the Greeks used to trade with Phoenicians and Alexander the great conquered Phoenicia if you keep insisting that the coins are Phoenician then you will have to prove it [/qb][/QUOTE]Why do you want the coins not to be Phoenician? That is the real question. there was trading going on so they would have to exchange currency, the imagery syncretic We need context and background: [QUOTE] The coinage of Carthage was first minted from the 5th century BCE. Initially adopting the drachma, the Carthaginians later minted silver shekel coins. Designs were instantly recognisable, as intended, and included famous figures such as Hannibal or local flora and fauna like the palm tree and elephant. Carthage, like its Phoenician founders and many other ancient Mediterranean trading cultures, was a relatively late entrant into the world of coins. Greece and its colonies had already been using them for several centuries. Barter and exchange were the tried and tested form of payment in the ancient world prior to coinage, and this system was particularly useful for nations like Carthage which traded in far-flung places where minted coins were less useful and their value not always recognised. Eventually, though, the convenience of transporting ingots of specific weights made from precious and semi-precious metals convinced the Carthaginians to adopt this method, and from there it was but a small step to minting even more manageable forms of payment in the shape of coins. The first Carthaginian coins were not actually minted at the home city of Carthage but in Sicily sometime in the late 5th century BCE, not coincidentally, a place which had long produced its own coins. The beginning of a Carthaginian controlled mint was likely driven, as it had been earlier in wider Greece, by the necessity to pay mercenary troops. Soldiers in the field did not have much use for heavy metal ingots and nor could they conveniently carry about large quantities of goods such as grain or other foodstuffs. The military campaigns of Carthage in western Sicily from 409 and 405 BCE and the arrival of coinage were not, then, unrelated. The first Carthaginian coins were made of either silver or bronze and copied the Greek tetradrachm (four-drachma) coin and its denominations famously produced by Athens. Coins in the ancient world were an important means to convey political and cultural messages by presenting the heads of rulers and figures from local mythology. Carthage was no different, and their coins depicted such important figures as Dido (aka Elissa and distinguished by her soft Phrygian cap with long neck and earflaps) who was the legendary founder of Carthage, the god Melqart (typically wearing a lionskin headdress and/or carrying a club), the goddesses Tanit, Astarte, and more rarely Isis, and the great generals Hamilcar Barca and Hannibal. Other popular and instantly recognisable designs were a ship's prow, the palm tree, horse (either just the head or whole), lion, and war elephant Carthaginian coins sometimes bore legends as well as pictures which included the city of issue, such as Sys (Panormus) and Qart-hadasht, or words indicating their immediate destination: mhnt (army), 'm mhnt (people of the army), mhsbm (paymasters), and b'rst ('in the territories', e.g. Sicily and Spain). [/QUOTE][IMG]http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images/display-5243.jpg[/IMG] Here we have a Tunisian palm tee Historian say that Carthage had coins. Phoenicians colonies in Africa like Carthage were founded on trade so it made sense for them to have coins for that purpose since their partner had coins. You are doing what you typically do You take something that is historical and suggest that it was not true That is fine if you were to start with the standard background as I am doing and them to question it But instead what you do is make a unique claim and then suggest that if other people can't disprove it it is therefore true. So you put the burden of proof on them when it should be on you who are suggesting something unusual But that is your responsibility That is why people write scientific articles instead of asking a question so that everybody else does the work [/qb][/QUOTE]^^^you cant even prove the coin you presented is even Carthaginian that coin was brought there by Agathocles palm trees are all over the Mediterranean how do you know the palm tree on the coin is Tunisian? your problem is that you are not a historian nor do you think like one you think that quoting modern historians who are guessing and conjecturing is some how proving im sorry but studying history does not work that way you need to show me a single source from a ancient Greek or roman that supports the use of coins being used by Carthage or phoenicia (so far you have not shown one) i have proved that the Carthaginians have used leather money "the Carthaginians make use of the following kind of money: in a small piece of leather a substance is wrapped of the size of a piece of four drachmae but what this substance is no one knows but the maker. after this it is sealed and issued for circulation; and he who possesses the most of this is regarded as having the most money and as being the wealthiest man. but if any one among us(Greeks) ever had so much, he would be no richer than if he possessed a quantity of pebbles." aeshines this reference is the only reference that describes Carthaginian money where is your ancient references? ;) [/QB][/QUOTE]
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