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White Europeans speak about black Europeans
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Elmaestro: [QB] [b]@Xyyman[/b] [b][i]"to get to 1:1:3:7 you have to get to 1:1:3:7. What do I mean? It did not start off with that ratio. Up to the mid-Neolithic to the early bronze age R1b-M269 was non-existent in Europe. So something happened to swing the pendulum in their favor to create that ratio."[/b][/i] -I Agree [i][b]In other words R1b-M269 was NOT present so ...NO availability . So was it by chance? I don't think so.[/b][/i] - Your losing your sense of scale, remember I stated that if around 7000-6000ya... [quote: [i]"we SPONTANEOUSLY [b]lose a lot of male G, C and E carriers[/b] and have a bunch of R carriers with a ratio of like 1:1:3:7 respectively[...][/i]"] The operative word being "Spontaneous." It doesn't really matter when R was introduced, It's just about the ratio of admixture post-catastrophe or w/e... I do believe this is where we disagree for now though, I see no better explanation at the moment, All I know is that A LOT of genetic variation was lost rapidly in Ancient Europe, the proportion or the end result wasn't engineered by evolution or adaptation, there's no evidence of that besides signals of strong selection, which combats the theory that their phenotype was achieved through relaxation aka removal of constraint. But I do like most of what you're saying about India in relation. It actually wen't over my head when I was reading Malicks paper that introduction of related haplogroups and other non pigment related genes were probably introduced to India much later along with slc25a2. What you're saying seems on the money, However, I personally don't have enough info on Indian history to challenge or verify assertions about the cultural implications on their genome. HOWEVER, I don't think you realized, the area not influenced by selection for lightening is exactly what Europe would look like under relaxation... India - the Caste = Removal of constraint. [b]@Thereal[/b] Cant' speak for anyone else, but that's what [b]I'm[/b] saying. (If I'm reading your question correctly) The problem with my position though, is East Asians... Saying that a population developed such a dynamic trait by chance is one thing, but it happened twice on two separate continents under [i]seemingly[/i] "similar" pressures. But when we dig deeper, the evidence becomes too overwhelming in favor of my position. We just can't seem to grasp that last nail to hammer into the coffin though. I strongly believe that certain discoveries of history were either omitted or delayed. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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