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White Europeans speak about black Europeans
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] Looks like the people over at Davidski are reading my posts on ES. As you can see the discussion is defending the origin of R1b-M269. As I pointed out , ****go where the data takes you**** . R-V88 (the upstream clade of R1b) is key to deciphering the origin. The more intelligent is catching on. The problem with their argument of a refugia in Italy is nonsense of course for several reasons. R-V88 in Central Africa is OLDER than coastal Africa. Also Italians carry a DIFFERENT sub-clade of R1b-M269 than Iberians. All of this point to the Sahara as the origin of European R1b-M269. Mark my word! Lol! But why did this clade become so dominant recently throughout Western Europe? BTW. By Italy they mean Sardinia(An island off of Africa) of course but NOT the Italian mainland. Europeans and their mis-direction and tricks. QUOTES ------------------ Blogger truth said... The Roman influences are small actually. [b]Most R1b in Italy is U152, which is low in Iberia,[/b] unless roman influence was female-mediated, wich doesn't seem plausible. February 26, 2017 at 5:32 AM Blogger Gioiello said... @ Simon_W [b]"one R1b-V88, the predominantly African clade of R1b"[/b] Perhaps you are the only one on all the fora not having realized that[b]*** I**** definitely demonstrated that R-V88 doesn't come from Middle East or Africa but from the Italian Refugium.[/b] My letters (and their answers) to Cruciani and Scozzari date only a little after their paper of 2010. Thus put R-V88, and very likely hg. G, in spite of the hg. G found in Middle East, and E-V13 (not found in aDNA in the Balkans when I am saying from so long that the oldest haplotypes are in Italy), as[b] migrated from Italy to Iberia.[/b] @Gioiello [b]About R1b-V88, relax! By calling it „predominantly African“ I wasn't saying anything about its origin,[/b] I was just referring to the place where it's most common now. Just like I did with calling R1b-M269 „predominantly West European“. Of course [b]I don't believe that it originated there.[/b] And no,[b] I'm not dogmatic, I just try to***** follow the evidence where it leads me****.[/b] Whereas you have made up your mind ten years ago and now you're never going to change your opinion again, no matter what new evidence comes to light. That's an awkward attitute which seriously hampers the ability of learning. @ Simon_W This is my last analysis of the situation of the hg. R-M269-PF7562, not different from what I said ten years ago, that I published in some blogs and fora. "Of course that the "basal branches" of R-M269 are in the Balkans isn't true. 1) It is true that so far there is a sample of R-M269-PF7562+ and PF7563- found in Anatolia, but this is just a tiny subclade [b]which isn't the ancestor of all the others, as nobody would think that R1b1-L389- found in India or Asia is the ancestor of all us who are R-L389+ [/b](now the thing is more and more clear with the tests on[b] R-V88 and R-M335 all rooted in Italy).[/b] 2) The age of this R-PF7562+/PF7563-, which was 5600 ya against the subclades given at 4500 ya, is now reduced (after that I invited my Italian American friend Joe Merante to send his BAM file toYFull) at 300 years, being the subclades at 5300 years old. 3) Anyway these subclades are younger than others, not only the oldest R-V88, R-M335 etc all rooted in Italy, but also R-M73 which is older in Western Europe than in Eastern Europe/Asia, where there is the subclade R-M73-M478, and also my R-L23-Z2110 seems older than the others at the R-L23 level. 4) Beyond that, R-M269 has the hugest subclade (Z29758) deeply rooted in Italy and Western Europe and it is clear now that the other samples found in Lebanon and around the Black Sea derive from Italy. The Jewish subclade (A11710) seems young, with 19 SNPs after a bottleneck, and may be derived from Italy or Western Europe as the most part of the Ashkenazic and Sephardic subclades. The other single clade are pretty all from Italy and Western Europe. 5) If other data will change this situation, I'll be glad to take it into account". February 26, 2017 at 11:40 PM [/QB][/QUOTE]
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