The author leaves it as an exercise to the readers to determine why the image above must be a depiction of Queen Sophia Charlotte.
Egyptsearchers are welcome to take up the challenge.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
Lady Elizabeth Keppel by Joshua Reynolds Date: 1761
Reynolds’s “sitter-book” records eight appointments with Lady Keppel (1739–1768). The woman who accompanies her had two independent morning sittings in December 1761 (both after Keppel had been painted). We do not know her name, in place of which Reynolds entered a single word—“negro”—in his notebook. This terse archival trace confirms that she, like Lady Keppel, was painted from life. She is shown handing Keppel a garland of flowers with which to deck a statue of Hymen, the god of marriage. This detail alludes to Keppel’s recent role as a bridesmaid at the wedding of George III and Queen Charlotte. The portrait (now at Woburn Abbey, UK) was exhibited at the Society of Artists as Whole length of a lady, one of her majesty’s bride maids. It was paid for by Lady Keppel’s brother, the third Earl of Albemarle (1724–1772). In 1762, shortly after the painting was finished, he would command British forces at the Battle of Havana, which resulted in Spain’s surrender of Cuba. This key victory of the Seven Years’ War reshaped the balance of power in the Atlantic.
Louise de Kéroualle, Duchess of Portsmouth
by Pierre Mignard oil on canvas, 1682
Black Crystal Member # 22903
posted
Her "blackness" is too far removed to claim her as Black. Her features are demonstrably mulatto or "creole." I would not say she was Black. But I would say she has negligible black ancestry.
A Habsburg Agenda Member # 21824
posted
quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: Her "blackness" is too far removed to claim her as Black. Her features are demonstrably mulatto or "creole." I would not say she was Black. But I would say she has negligible black ancestry.
Which picture are you referring to, the one of Lady Elizabeth Keppel, or the one of Louise de Kerouialle, Duchess of Portsmouth?
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted Queen Charlotte
And what did Queen Charlotte's parents look like?
lamin Member # 5777
posted
Given that all humans derive from Africans--some whites do have features that many describe as "Africanoid".
There have been discussions by blacks themselves of people such as Mick Jagger,Jimmy Carter, Angela Jolie, Arianna Grande, etc.
South East Asians also carry traits that are shared with Africans/blacks. This, of course, does not mean that they are related in the normal sense of that term.
A Habsburg Agenda Member # 21824
posted
The notes in the painting describe the black women as "Negro", without given her name. Why are Lamin and Black Crystal questioning whether the woman in the painting is a black women. I am sure back in the 1700s black women knew how to use hot combs to straighten their hair.
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted
quote:WHAT IS A BLACK PERSON?
PROOF, of course...is the term that many Africans use to describe the “one true hair” that is the unique Crown of the black man and the black woman. Black Americans (who, to me, are Africans) refer to it as “Nappy Hair”.
--Kola Boof
lamin Member # 5777
posted
@Hapsburg,
There are 2 females in the painting. One is white, the other is African. The hair of the African is probably straightened. Look closely.
Black Crystal Member # 22903
posted
I am referring to the widely circulated portrait of her. This one:
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda:
quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: Her "blackness" is too far removed to claim her as Black. Her features are demonstrably mulatto or "creole." I would not say she was Black. But I would say she has negligible black ancestry.
Which picture are you referring to, the one of Lady Elizabeth Keppel, or the one of Louise de Kerouialle, Duchess of Portsmouth?
the questioner Member # 22195
posted
Most people who described her saw the African blood in her. According to a poem during her coronation it reads "Descended from the warlike Vandal race, She still preserves that title in her face. Tho' shone their triumphs o'er Numidia's plain(Africa), And and Alusian fields their name retain; They but subdued the southern world with arms(Africa), She conquers still with her triumphant charms, O! born for rule, - to whose victorious brow The greatest monarch of the north must bow."
posted
Here is more proof of Queen Charlotte's complexion.
From the Memoirs of Samuel FB Morse: Louis XVIII in London, Page 137
quote: The Queen, if I was truly directed to her, is an old woman of very sallow complexion, and nothing agree- able either in her countenance or deportment; and, if she was not called a queen, she might as well be any ugly old woman. The Princess Charlotte of Wales I thought pretty; she has small features,...
I suggest doubters, look up the etymology of the word sallow, which I have posted somewhere on this forum in the past, then try to imagine what a very sallow complexion means. Hint - it doesn't mean an unhealthy looking skin.
A Habsburg Agenda Member # 21824
posted
If the image image below is officially recognized (it is from the National Portrait Gallery) as a true depiction of Queen Charlotte then it is it so farfetched to believe that she is same woman depicted in the painting of Lady Elizabeth Keppel? Observed closely the main difference between this and the other is that this is monochrome and probably depicts her when she was older, whereas the other was made a few months after she married King George.
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda: Here is more proof of Queen Charlotte's complexion.
From the Memoirs of Samuel FB Morse: Louis XVIII in London, Page 137
quote: The Queen, if I was truly directed to her, is an old woman of very sallow complexion, and nothing agree- able either in her countenance or deportment; and, if she was not called a queen, she might as well be any ugly old woman. The Princess Charlotte of Wales I thought pretty; she has small features,...
I suggest doubters, look up the etymology of the word sallow, which I have posted somewhere on this forum in the past, then try to imagine what a very sallow complexion means. Hint - it doesn't mean an unhealthy looking skin.
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I searched the book for the word "sallow" and this is the only other instance I found
A Habsburg Agenda Member # 21824
posted
I don't suppose you understand the meaning of the word etymology
There is no hint of sickliness in the etymology of sallow. The word appears in Old English as salu or salo, and could mean "dusky" or "dark" or "grayish greenish yellow." Salu (or salo) is akin to Old English sōl ("dark, dirty"), Old High German salo ("murky, dirty gray"), Old Norse sölr ("dirty"), and even Sanskrit sāra or sāla, which carries the basic meaning of "dirty gray." Sallow, however, has for much of its history been used specifically to describe the skin or complexion of one who is unwell.
Because contemporary Europeans are lied to about the complexions of their ancestors they assume that every usage of the word is an instance of its meaning as sickly or jaundiced.
Another fact to note: Queen Charlotte had 15 children of which 13 survived into adulthood. Do you think that the word sallow as used to describe her implied she looked unhealthy?
the lioness, Member # 17353
posted Duchess Donata of Mecklenburg, a direct descendant of Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, by two daughters of Queen Victoria, grandaughter of Queen Charlotte.
Duchess Donata of Mecklenburg
Princess Thyra of Denmark, later duchess of Cumberland
Two of the Portraits of Queen Charlotte by Allan Ramsay
Queen Charlotte (1744–1818) Allan Ramsay (1713–1784) Cupar County Buildings
Queen Charlotte Sophia Allan Ramsay (1713–1784) St John's College, University of Oxford
According to Mario de Valdes y Cocom in 2009 on an edition of PBS Frontline, in several paintings of Queen Charlotte, Ramsay deliberately emphasised "mulatto features" which the queen supposedly inherited via descent from a 13th-century Moorish ancestor.[7] Valdes suggests that copies of these paintings were sent to the colonies to be used by abolitionists as a de facto support for their cause.[7]
Other historians question whether the 13th-century ancestor, referred to in various places as a 'Moor' and Berber, was black African. In any event, they contend that the connection, nine and 15 generations removed, was too distant to consider Charlotte 'black' in any cultural way, as her other ancestors were all European
quote:Originally posted by the questioner: Most people who described her saw the African blood in her. According to a poem during her coronation it reads "Descended from the warlike Vandal race, She still preserves that title in her face. Tho' shone their triumphs o'er Numidia's plain(Africa), And and Alusian fields their name retain; They but subdued the southern world with arms(Africa), She conquers still with her triumphant charms, O! born for rule, - to whose victorious brow The greatest monarch of the north must bow."
(it must be noted that DNA testing did not exist back then. Her father may not be her real biological father.)
You have a quote here that quotes a marriage poem and about this poem says:
quote:
Most people who described her saw the African blood in her. According to a poem during her coronation it reads "Descended from the warlike Vandal race, She still preserves that title in her face. Tho' shone their triumphs o'er Numidia's plain
A poem referring to being descended of the "Vandal race", refers to Germans who invaded (Triumphed over)part of North Africa -not people of African blood. So the quote above is misinterpreting the marriage poem (more of the poem below)
quote: “Descended from the warlike Vandal race,
She still preserves that title in her face.
Tho’ shone their triumphs o’er Numidia’s plain,
And and Alusian fields their name retain;
They but subdued the southern world with arms,
She conquers still with her triumphant charms,
O! born for rule, - to whose victorious brow
The greatest monarch of the north must bow.”
– On His Majesty’s Intended Marriage to the Princess of Mecklenberg, and her Arrival in England, 1761
The Vandal Kingdom was established by the Germanic Vandal people under Genseric, and ruled in North Africa and the Mediterranean from 435 AD to 534 AD.
In 429, the Vandals, estimated to number 80,000 people, had crossed by boat from Spain to North Africa. They advanced eastward conquering the coastal regions of 21st century Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. In 435, the Roman Empire, then ruling in North Africa, allowed the Vandals to settle in the provinces of Numidia and Mauretania.
Oulton, Walley Chamberlain, Authentic and Impartial Memoirs of Her Late Majesty Charlotte, Queen of Great Britain and Ireland (1819, London)
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Also this picture appears to be some sort of copy of the Allan Ramsay portrait I have above but the color is changed and it is oddly cropped. I don't now what the original source of it is but it appears in this article from an online Ghana source
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda: Here is more proof of Queen Charlotte's complexion.
From the Memoirs of Samuel FB Morse: Louis XVIII in London, Page 137
quote: The Queen, if I was truly directed to her, is an old woman of very sallow complexion, and nothing agree- able either in her countenance or deportment; and, if she was not called a queen, she might as well be any ugly old woman. The Princess Charlotte of Wales I thought pretty; she has small features,...
I suggest doubters, look up the etymology of the word sallow, which I have posted somewhere on this forum in the past, then try to imagine what a very sallow complexion means. Hint - it doesn't mean an unhealthy looking skin.
.
.
I searched the book for the word "sallow" and this is the only other instance I found
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda:
Another fact to note: Queen Charlotte had 15 children of which 13 survived into adulthood. Do you think that the word sallow as used to describe her implied she looked unhealthy?
We have two pages from Samuel F.B. Morse's book where the word "sallow" is used. One is about Queen Charlotte in her older age and the other about himself he says he has been healthy since coming to England although has lost weight and people tell him that "I have lost my color, grown more sallow". So similarly he may have said Queen Charlotte did not look sallow when she was younger, we don't know. But he had she seen her when when she looked sallow, "colorless" is they way he was using the term in the other part of the book, at this she was older.
posted 
