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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Antalas: Both Fulanis and Sahelian berbers have substantial amount of Early european farmer + Iberomaurusian ancestry which in Africa peaks among NW Africans. This is not surprising, as Proto-Berbers expanded into the Sahara and reached the Sahel region quite early in history. However, your statement is a bit exaggerated since these Berbers ultimately originated from the North; they didn't suddenly emerge in the Sahel out of nowhere. [/QUOTE]Focusing on phenotype. The Fulanis and some Tuaregs(lets not ignore this as unlike Nile-Valley ancestry, Black Americans DO have some Tuareg ancestry) overlap with certain Black Americans phenotypically. I also read studies that Berbers originated near southwest Egypt and then split into two groups but that's another story. Fact is these two groups that were referred to as "White" were dark skinned(even described as such by non-Africans) but based off of West African loose definition of White, they were described as "White." Edit: As for Iberomaurusian ancestry, I been hearing some interesting things about that. But that's a story for another time. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Antalas: As for you analogy, it doesn't apply in this context because East Africa, unlike the western Sahel, didn't have any light-skinned ethnicity as far as I know. [/QUOTE]The Habesha groups can be extremely light skinned. Then we have northern Cushite groups like the Beja. Also didn't you literally make an Ethiopian thread highlighting some of the palest Ethiopians? Many Tuareg groups literally almost have the same pale yellow skin complexion as some Habeshas. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Antalas: Moreover, the fact that they are not seen as "black" doesn't automatically mean they are seen as "white" either. [/QUOTE]My point is that Africans definition of racial terms are loose. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Antalas: The individuals you met probably acknowledge (unlike some members here, lol) that people from the Horn of Africa as a whole look too distinct/different. [/QUOTE]But they were not referred to as BLACK which is the point I'm making. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Antalas: The Haitian term "blan" for Afro-Americans likely refers to their White American cultural background. [/QUOTE]Black American cultural background is "creolized" not White. More importantly Haitians especially rural Haitians terming Black Americans "blan" has nothing to do with culture but phenotype. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Antalas: On the other hand, in West Africa, there were indeed light-skinned North Africans who settled there (and by "light-skinned," I don't necessarily mean pasty white skin, of course). [/QUOTE]"Light skin" can mean anything. And we already have descriptions of Saharan Berbers like the Sanhaja. They were not light skinned like Atlas Mountain Berbers but phenotypically they were distinct from other West Africans like the Sonnike. And even with Fulanis North African admixture they still overlap with Black Americans and other Afro-Diasporans. However, the difference between them and West Africans like the Sonnike its no different than certain Great Lakes Africans especially those in Eastern Congo considering Congolese Tutsis a different race when both a Bantu groups. Overall the term "white" used in Ghana was not literal and its a waste of time to argue semantics. Edit: Heck Igbos of Nigeria were called "Red" by other West Africans. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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