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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] [QUOTE]Yet the point again is YOU created this thread specifically talking about the United States and how an Indian person passed themselves off as black. And you keep trying to spin the history of racism based on skin color in the United States(not to mention elsewhere), into somehow being black peoples fault. Yet you continue to act like you don't understand why I am calling you out on this when you specifically created this thread specifically to talk about the USA. Now you want to claim that you don't live in the USA and don't want to discuss something in a thread you created to focus on "race" in the United States. All because I called you out on your nonsense.[/QUOTE]Yes I created the thread showing how flawed the American perceptions of race and color are in general. The point is also that everyone seems to accept these racial divisions and labels and continue perpetuing them, both "black" and "white" people. Also many Americans seem to propagate for them to be used in other parts of the world, or for people in ancient times. [/qb][/QUOTE]You created this thread again as a passive aggressive attack on black people by trying to claim that is the African Americans who created racism based on skin color in the United States and everywhere else. And this is why I am calling you out on it because you keep trying to play dumb about the history of conquest, theft, oppression and slavery as part of European colonial expansion and how skin color is important to maintaining European domination. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] Luckily it is not so bad where I live. Even the old colonial powers in Europe (except the Brits) are turning away from officially register people by race or skin color. Maybe USA will follow suit also, 100 years from now or so. [/qb][/QUOTE]Again running away from the fact that the root of racist ideologies originated in Europe in order to pretend that somehow it is the blacks (and other groups) outside Europe that created racism, not the European colonists and settlers. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] Well, Black people are not innocent, they also use those labels. Just look at all those who want to black paint every ancient civilisation, from the Olmecs to ancient China. These people are a nuisance on social media, and you can hardly blame "white" people for their behaviour. [/qb][/QUOTE]And here you are again trying so hard to blame black people for racism of Europeans acting like you don't know that the only reason African Americans used the word "black" is because it is a better term than "Negro". And the only reason they used "black" is because they didn't want to use "African" because their African identity had been stripped from them by Europeans during slavery. And they were forced to identify as "Negro" because Europeans used their skin color as a marker of slave status which goes back to the Spanish and Portuguese racial caste systems. But of course you keep skipping over all of that knowing full well that Africans in Africa don't simply identify as "black" as opposed to the ethnic group they belong to or language they speak. But you keep trying to spout this nonsense that somehow that Africans coming off the slave ships were demanding to be called "Negro" or "black" when they weren't. You keep saying it and you keep being wrong and this is why I keep calling you out on it. [QUOTE] Senator Harry Reid apologized for his comment, made before the 2008 election, that Barack Obama could win in part because he was a "light skinned" African-American with "no Negro dialect." Reid, who is resisting calls for his resignation, described the gaffe as a "poor choice of words." [b]When did the word Negro become socially unacceptable? It started its decline in 1966 and was totally uncouth by the mid-1980s. The turning point came when Stokely Carmichael coined the phrase black power at a 1966 rally in Mississippi. Until then, Negro was how most black Americans described themselves. But in Carmichael's speeches and in his landmark 1967 book, Black Power: The Politics of Liberation in America, he persuasively argued that the term implied black inferiority.[/b] Among black activists, Negro soon became shorthand for a member of the establishment. Prominent black publications like Ebony switched from Negro to black at the end of the decade, and the masses soon followed. According to a 1968 Newsweek poll, more than two-thirds of black Americans still preferred Negro, but black had become the majority preference by 1974. Both the Associated Press and the New York Times abandoned Negro in the 1970s, and by the mid-1980s, even the most hidebound institutions, like the U.S. Supreme Court, had largely stopped using Negro.[/QUOTE] https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/question/2010/october.htm Yes, there is no true difference between "negro" and "black" as they both mean the same thing, but the point was for African Americans to define themselves as opposed to being defined by others. But changing labels is not changing the system itself and the discrimination against people based on skin color which is the core problem. And you keep trying to avoid that in order to focus on the semantics of words so you an pretend it is a problem with black people using the word black and not racism itself. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] Whites invented these systems, but many blacks play along. If they want to get away from these hierarchies they should not try to apply them on other people who many times identify in other ways. [/qb][/QUOTE]Racism was enforced by violence in all cases, by Europeans, but according to you it is black people who are the problem, not the Europeans that created all these atrocities to maintain this system based on skin color. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] I sometimes compare with other countries which do not have such a simplified system to label people. Seems time for USA to maybe try to find a better system. [/qb][/QUOTE]No, you are trying to pretend that racism did not originate in Europe and only originated with no European populations. Your point is obvious and you are proving my point the more you keep talking. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] And as long as blacks go along with the system and try to impose it on other groups, they are not innocent to the confusion either. [/qb][/QUOTE]There you go again, acting like black people who fought the civil rights movement to gain justice for all victims of racism were imposing injustice on somebody else. As if the civil rights movement was a fight for black people to spread injustice on other people. Again, acting like the racism based on skin color did not originate in Europe and European society. You aren't fooling anybody with your passive aggressive tone. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] I do not say that Black people invented racism, but some have adopted racist American values and use them as a weapon on other peoples. There are enough many such people on the net, harassing Egyptians, Native Americans and others. One can not entirely blame that on white people, some African Americans also perpetuate their own kind of racism. [/qb][/QUOTE]Again, [b]YOU[/b] created this thread about an Indian person who committed fraud to pass as "black" and according to you the whole problem is black people. Black people do not run the university he applied to and black people did not create the application process and black people did not accept his admission as a "black" student. But, you refuse to address these facts which [b]YOU[/b] created a thread about, but instead want to blame all of this on black people, not the racism of Europeans and not the fraud of this Indian person. Not to mention the whole point of this fraud was to try and blame black people for Affirmative Action as if somehow black people were trying to get something for nothing. Again, you knew this when you created the thread and are simply playing dumb like you didn't know this in the first place, which is why you wont address those points that are the topic of the thread and instead just continue to go on and on about how this is a "black" problem. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] Again, I never hear you whine over threads here on ES which are clearly anti white, where people are called cave men, nazis and similar. And also, have you ever protested against a thread which want to claim ancient Americans as Africans, or Olmecs as Mande or similar? You just whine when someone criticizes African Americans. [/qb][/QUOTE][b]YOU[/b] created this thread to whine about the word "black" and "black people" not me. So you need to ask yourself why you are so obsessed with "black" people and what they think to the point of trying to argue that racism is their fault and not those of your native Europe. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] I saw you came whining in my Afrocentrism thread too, but I did not swallow that bait and instead ignored your post. This thread I created just shows the arbitrariness of the American way of viewing color and race, where a dark skinned man can pretend to be another dark skinned man, but one (the Indian) is called brown, while the other (the African American) is called black. It just shows that skin color is only a part of the problem, there are also other divisions in the American society. I do not only blame black people, but they are also complicit in upholding the divisions in society. [/qb][/QUOTE]This thread shows that racism is based on skin color and your refusal to accept that because you want to make it seem that "black people" are the problem instead of racism as created by Europeans based on skin color. It is obvious to everybody involved in the topic of the thread that the issue is skin color, but you refuse to address that because all you want to do is whine about black people using the word black. You make no sense and are just passive aggressive trolling. And to the point of the thread, this guy ultimately dropped out of Medical School admitting he wasn't really cut out for it. Yet you aren't calling him out for that fraud, but trying to pretend this is an issue of black people: [QUOTE] Most of my friends were supportive, although for the longest time they saw it as a fraternity joke, that is until I got wait-listed at the Washington University School of Medicine. A few, including my girlfriend, disapproved. It made no difference to me because I was a man on a mission. She and I eventually broke up. What I wasn’t prepared for was the startling change in the way people treated the “black” me. People became suspicious, even hostile. Walking to class one morning, a lone female student ran into a snowy field to avoid me. One evening I was driving my shiny red Toyota 4Runner truck slightly under the speed limit. A cop pulled me over and seemed irritated, bluntly asking how I could afford such an expensive car. One morning I went to the grocery store I’d frequented for three years to buy some junk food to tamp down a hellacious frat-party hangover. I made my purchase and headed to the door when suddenly their security guard stepped in my way and accused me of shoplifting. I protested so he threw me to the floor and rifled through my bag. Nothing remotely like this had ever happened when I was just another Indian doctor’s son. Walking in a black man’s shoes dimmed much of the youthful enthusiasm I’d had about my deception. And it certainly wasn’t a cake walk being a black applicant. I had to pass through a long and arduous admissions process that was typical for a medical-school applicant. But in the end I achieved my goal. I got into the St. Louis University School of Medicine. [b]Once in med school, I relaxed a bit because it was easy to blend in. With 150 students, nobody ever asked me any questions about my race, probably because medical school was just too hectic. After two years and a lot of soul searching I realized I just wasn’t cut out to be a doctor. I dropped out of medical school for many reasons, but not being black was not one of them.[/b] Even if I never became a doctor, at least my sister did: on television.[/QUOTE] https://nypost.com/2015/04/12/mindy-kalings-brother-explains-why-he-pretended-to-be-black/ The whole point of this stunt was to say that by pretending to be black he got accepted to University with lower qualifications and that this is why he wasn't able to get into university. So he was trying to attack affirmative action. And other places have called him out on the misleading story as well: [QUOTE] [b]The claim was part of a publicity campaign for a forthcoming book, Almost Black, in which Chokal-Ingam says he will use his experience to attack the validity of affirmative action. The centerpiece of this campaign is an image that suggests that Chokal-Ingam applied to med school twice: once as an Indian-American named Vijay (rejected), and once as a black applicant named Jojo (accepted).[/b] Nearly every media outlet that wrote about the stunt prominently featured the graphic, yet very few addressed whether Chokal-Ingam had applied twice, and some erroneously concluded that he had. [b]But Chokal-Ingam told BuzzFeed News he only applied to med school once, and only as a black applicant. The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) also confirmed that they did not have an application on file with Chokal-Ingham's real first name. "Unfortunately, you're right," Chokal-Ingham told BuzzFeed News when asked if he had only applied under one identity. "I am one person, I'm not two people, so I can't actually apply twice."[/b] Chokal-Ingam said he did not believe the image was misleading, because the rest of the material on his website shows that he only applied once. It would have likely been impossible for Chokal-Ingham to apply twice under two different identities, as the image suggests. Both the AAMC, which handles the centralized med school application, and individual med schools verify the identities of applicants at several steps in the process, according to AAMC officials and med school admissions officers interviewed by BuzzFeed News. AAMC also investigates any discrepancies it finds in separate applications from the same person. Chokal-Ingam says that, as a junior in college, he came to believe he was unlikely to get into med school unless he took advantage of affirmative action by posing as a black man. So he shaved his head, trimmed his eyebrows, and identified as black in his MCAT exam and his school applications. He applied to more than 20 schools and was rejected by all but one, St. Louis University School of Medicine. In Chokal-Ingam's view, the fact that he got into St. Louis and received interviews at other schools is proof that he got into med school because of his purported race. But the fact that he only applied once means this was an experiment without a control: There is no way of knowing whether Chokal-Ingam would have been rejected had he applied without falsifying his race. There is some statistical evidence suggesting discrimination against Asian-American applicants to elite schools. At the same time, black students have always been greatly underrepresented in med schools. Just over 6% of medical school enrollees are black, according to the latest data from AAMC.[/QUOTE] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidnoriega/the-problems-with-mindy-kalings-brothers-med-school-hoax So this is the story you created the thread to talk about, but somehow you only see fit to want to whine about "black" people being "black". [/QB][/QUOTE]
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