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New genomic analysis of Otzi the Iceman
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Swenet: @BrandonP As far as the wider implications (you mentioned ANF), these revelations (e.g. [b]the piecemeal spread of skin pigmentation genes, the surprisingly late appearance of CHG that is in modern Egypt, today) are welcome because they're the genetic correlates of the physical change[/b] we see in the Mediterranean skeletal data (Brace et al 2005), and we've not had that, so far. [/QUOTE]Might be interesting for some that lactose intolerance is possibly another example of this for ancient Egypt, as ancient documents reveal milk was important in the AE diet, while modern Egyptians [URL=https://vividmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Lactose.jpg]largely can't digest milk[/URL], and to the extent that they can, they're seemingly not on the African hapotypes, but possibly on non-African ones (compare the discrepancy in the [URL=https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lactase-persistence-africa.jpg]frequency of known LP alleles[/URL] with the [URL=https://www.sapiens.org/app/uploads/2018/10/02-Lactose_tolerance_in_the_Old_World.jpg]frequency of digestors in five samples from modern Egypt[/URL]). Though I'm waiting for more info on African LP before I make up my mind on this, it's still curious that modern Egyptians show a dip in the frequency of this trait ( [URL=https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1038%2Fng1946/MediaObjects/41588_2007_Article_BFng1946_Fig2_HTML.jpg]compared to nearby Afroasiatic groups, like the Beja[/URL]), given the lower Nile (Egypt, Nubia)'s involvement in the spread of African-style pastoralism, which in that region involved the use of domesticates for milk more than for meat, among other African-specific uses of cattle.[/QUOTE]As stated above, a special category of genetic evidence is now emerging slowly, that is unique in that it quantifies much more precisely the change that happened in Egypt. The usual genetic stuff, like the default generic ancestry components (e.g. "West African", "European", "Middle Eastern") and genetic distance ("x population is closer to Y"), have a number of weaknesses. [list] [*]They are not layered in terms of not showing [URL=https://images2.imgbox.com/51/ef/pcphVyhD_o.png]changes at different time depths[/URL], [*]They are abstract outputs by machines that differ depending on the study, [*]They can be manipulated by naming and by the blogger withholding or not pursuing clues about their affinities ("we couldn't test for African ancestry in Natufians" :rolleyes: ), and [*]They are prone to giving underestimations about the change that happened (homogenization of Eurasia caused Bronze Age backmigrants to repeatedly bring back ancestry that was already in dynastic Egypt, which, since the ancestry was already present, such repeated migrations will be more likely to go unnoticed until researchers pursue followup analyses, which as I've just stated, is sometimes delayed by what seems like deliberate neglect). [/list] In contrast, the data I'm thinking of: [list] [*]is either dated, or there is some degree of certainty that a genetic trait was present or absent (e.g. ancient Egyptian texts that indicate milk was a part of their diet, would qualify as it establishes with some degree of confidence that ancient Egyptians had LP on par with some nearby groups with similar genetics, like the Beja). [*]includes specific polymorphisms in diverse subsystems of genetics (e.g. HLA genes, LP genes, HbS genes, pigmentation genes) rather than over relying on abstract and to some extent nebulous bulk ancestry component like "West African" or "European", that are still "under construction" or "work in progress" in the sense that they are undergoing further refinement and quantification regarding their boundaries and subcomponents. [*]Lastly, the data has a before and after aspect. So under these rules the Natufian component, though somewhat refined and quantified, is too old to show a before and after for North Africa as we don't have samples at the same site at different time depths. Although for Egypt specifically, we do get some of this, as the upcoming papers speak of an increase of CHG and farmer, at the expense of Natufian-like. [/list] With that explained, let's sum up what we had so far. *CHG *LP alleles *skin pigmentation genes If it's really true that dynastic Egyptians are a better match with northern Haratin, than with modern Egyptians, as Osirion claims, we can add the data below to the list. Not to say that Egyptians were closer to Haratin, but to have another biological system to quantify change in between ancient and modern Egyptians. [QUOTE]Originally posted by osirion: Can anyone eXplain why the [b]Haratins would have the closest blood type to the royal Dynastic Egyptians?[/b] I realiZe blood typing isn't always accurate but these are people of the same general region. Shouldn't modern day Egyptians have the closest blood type? Logically modern day Egyptians should be the closest in blood type to the ancients so why would indigenous Black Africans be closer? The best eXplaination that is simplest to understand is that the Haratins resemble the Ancient Egyptians better than the modern because they are not as miXed with non-African influence as much. =============================================== G. Paoli, in "ABO Typing of Ancient Egyptians" IN _Population biology of ancient Egyptians_, edited by D.R. Brothwell and B.A. Chiarelli, London, New York, 1973, showed that the Dynastic Egyptians were most closely matched with the Haratin of the northern Sahara. Paoli mentions the theory of Cabot-Briggs (Cabot-Briggs, L. (1958), _The Living Races of the Sahara Desert, Massachussets) that this resemblance might indicate the origin of the Haratin. Here are the figures given for the two groups from Paoli (p. 464): Modern Northern Haratin and Dynastic Egyptian ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No. O A B AB p q r ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Egyptians 160 34 64 34 28 34.35 21.45 44.20 (Paoli) Haratin 202 40 80 57 25 30.99 23.14 48.87 (Mourant) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Haratin are considered a mixture of the "aboriginal black population" of North Africa and freed slaves mostly from the South. Of particular interest in the chart above is the very high frequency of the q gene. In most European population, the gene frequency is below 10% (See Montagu, A. _Introduction to Physical Anthropology_ 1960, p. 334). [/QB][/QUOTE]BTW, wiki denies that the northern Haratin are closest to the Egyptian sample. It claims that modern Egyptians are closer. So this latest entry will have to be confirmed before it can be added in the way that Osirion presented it. But even if modern Egyptians samples are closer, it will still be usable to document the degree of change (which is what this list is really about, not to argue dynastic Egyptians were Haratin). [i]Blood typing on ancient Egyptian mummies is scant. A study published in 1982 found that blood typing of dynastic mummies found ABO frequencies to be [b]most similar to primarily modern Egyptians[/b], and some also to Northern Haratin populations.[119] ABO blood group distribution shows that the Egyptians form a sister group to North African populations including Berbers, Nubians and Canary Islanders.[/i] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_Egypt [/QB][/QUOTE]
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