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Dutch Museum Controversy over depiction of Tutankhamun as Nas
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb]They do not attack Beyonce and the others but they still show what they think about the exhibition and about African American artists dressing up as Egyptians. And they also showed what they thought of the Netflix Cleopatra movie. The two discussions are related. [/qb][/QUOTE]There is no legitimate reason to attach a museum in a white nation, run by white people who are thousands of miles away from America and the black musicians who made these works. To sit here and claim that this is a legitimate response to actual individual artists is the problem, because it isn't. You seem to keep trying to support these extreme responses exclusively for African artists as if the Nile isn't in Africa and the ancient dynastic Kingdom wasn't an African culture. You seem to believe that because the Egyptian government is behind it, that somehow that makes it legit, when it doesn't. The modern government of Egypt is not ancient and has a constitution that calls itself Arab and Islamic which has nothing to do with the ancient Kingdom. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] Seems you are unable to see these things in a context. Netflix Cleopatra, the Dutch exhibition, Black American artists that Egypt does not approve of, and even internet trolls are just parts of a larger discussion where Egypt is tired of African Americans (and maybe also other westerners) in different ways using their ancient culture partly for commercial reasons and, as in the Cleopatra case, probably also for some kind of political purposes.[/qb][/QUOTE]The only context is you trying to legitimize anti African propaganda. Because there is nothing about this action that is anything other than anti-African propaganda. The Egyptian government has no place telling African people who they can and cannot identify with is the point. You somehow seem to feel that it is legitimate to do so. The ancient kingdom of the Nile was African and will always be African. To sit here and claim that the modern "Arab" government of Egypt can somehow claim to represent that African kingdom makes absolutely no sense. The ancient kingdom is gone and hasn't been around for thousands of years and the modern Egyptian government is not a direct continuation of it. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb]Well whoever stripped Africans Americans from their historical roots it was not Egyptians. So better African Americans try to find their roots in those parts of Africa their ancestors once came from. Some of the obsession over ancient Egypt seems more or less neurotic. [/qb][/QUOTE]Again, we know who stripped the Africans in the Americas of their identity. The point is Europeans are in the wrong in both that historical act and the idea that they can now dictate how those modern descendants should identify. The perpetrators of the crime cannot claim somehow to be the solution when they are the ones who created it. So again, it is still anti-African propaganda to argue that certain parts of African history are "off limits" to Africans. Who the hell are Europeans or the modern "Arab" Egyptian government to tell Africans who they are and what is and isn't their history. This is the part you keep trying to legitimize which is nothing but anti-African propaganda. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] And how long do a people who live on another continent remain Africans, 200 years, 500 years or more? Most African Americans have never been in Egypt or in other parts of Africa. Most do not talk any African language, most do not practice any traditional African religion, and most do not know more about Africa than anyone else. [/qb][/QUOTE]You know full well this is a dumb question because you aren't talking about an ancient migration of people in prehistoric times. These people are Africans only separated from Africa by a couple hundred years and in many parts of the Americas they still maintain their African heritage and traditions. To sit here and argue that these Africans should not identify as Africans is nothing but anti-African propaganda and anti-African hate. Not only were they stolen from Africa, forced to work for free, but then when they try and reconnect to their historic African roots, they are told they aren't really Africans, by the same people who stole them in the first place. All of which is blatantly against any form of African self identity and sovereignty. Not to mention turning around and saying that these Africans are the problem because they are stealing history from Africa. I mean seriously the lack of shame and dishonesty in all of this knows no bounds. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] Fact is that when it comes to Egypt many more Europeans have been to Egypt than African Americans, yes it would not even surprise me that more Swedes have been in Egypt than African Americans. If African Americans are Africans then white South Africans are also Africans, since they lived in Africa some centuries now, roughly as long as African Americans lived outside of Africa. [/qb][/QUOTE]And now your true stripes come out in claiming that European invaders, colonizers and thieves have more of a right to identify with African history than Africans do and certainly more of a right than the Africans they colonized and stole from Africa. By definition that is the epitome of anti-African hate and propaganda. When the fact is that these invaders throughout their history have always upheld their identity as Europeans and white over everyone they colonized. So to sit here and argue that somehow they see themselves as other than white and European just shows how far you will go to push your anti-African propaganda. Especially when you are arguing that Africans identifyng with African history is wrong but Europeans doing it is perfectly fine and more legitimate than Africans. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb]Chief X, who is himself an African American, is just comparing some African Americans obsessive behaviour with some other peoples who do not obsess over foreign countries in the same way. Seems he sees through some of the Afrocentric Bs and obsessions.[/qb][/QUOTE]What does that have to do with the fact that Egyptians have no problem appropriating African American pop culture? See how you completely changed the point when I pointed out how hypocritical this position on the Dutch Museum is? If appropriation and imitating the art and culture of others that you aren't part of is wrong, then why are modern Egyptians doing it? Somehow you just cannot handle the fact that this entire issue is totally nonsense and an extreme form of hypocrisy and anti African propaganda. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] Egypt does not necessarily dislike African culture, but maybe they dislike African American culture, which is not African. [/qb][/QUOTE]Rap [b]IS[/b] African American culture and many of the artists in the Dutch Museum exhibit are rappers or part of the rap industry, such as Beyonce who is married to Jay-Z. What you are saying and defending is that non Africans can take and identify with whatever they want in African history,but Africans have to stick to only whatever parts of Africa these non Africans tell them to stick to. All of which is blatantly racist any way you look at it. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Archeopteryx: [qb] Totally relevant because it shows that not everyone loves rap, hip hop and similar pop cultural phenomena. In many countries it is a question of societal group, age, class and other factors, which decide who mostly listen to a certain kind of music, or embrace certain cultural expressions and influences. [/qb][/QUOTE]Which is you babbling nonsense because I never said that everyone loves rap. I said that rap is the most popular form of pop music in Egypt today. Two different things. You keep trying to use these threads to attack black people at every step, for being black, for being African and on and on as nothing but a continuous stream of anti-black and anti-African propaganda. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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