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T O P I C     R E V I E W
LadyYuna
Member # 3841
 - posted
Peace All,

I wanted to know if any Westerner on this forum has ever attended an Egyptian school designed to teach Arabic or Islam? I would really like to learn. I have heard of Qortoba and the Fajr Institute, but I don‘t know much about them. If anyone wants to take a peak at their websites the can be found at qortoba.com and arabisch.net. I would really like any kind of input you all would like to give me. Even if you just went to regular school in Egypt (but you’re from the West), I would like to hear your story/advice.

This forum has been pretty beneficial already in regards to living in Egypt. But I wanted to start a topic on being educated there (especially being educated in Arabic or Islam).

Thanks,

Yuna

 

newcomer
Member # 1056
 - posted
If you look back you will find many threads discussing about learning Arabic here and many references to the Fajr Center and some about the Qortoba Institute. Just do a keyword search and you will fond lots of feedback.

Also if you do a search on Google for Arabic classes in Cairo you will also get information about some of the other centers here.

Basically as far as I know Qortoba is the only center that has been offering regular Islamic classes for non-native speakers, but that still depends on the student's Arabic level and the demand for the particular classes as they don't have enough students to run them all full-time. I think I did see that some of the other centers mention on their websites that they offer Islamic classes too, but I don't have any details about them.

The other alternative, if you are under 30 and have many years to dedicate to your learning, is that you might want to try applying to Al-Azhar University. You would have to take their Arabic classes, or pass their entrance exam, and then before entering the university you would have to attend and pass their secondary school classes, in the same way that any Egyptian would. Al-Azhar has strict guidelines as to who they will accept!

You don't say where you are from, how much knowledge you already have, or if you have any exerperience of educational methods outside the West, but basically there are a lot of differences in the teaching styles and expectations from the students. A lot more memorizing and learning of facts is expected here and not so much discussion and critical thinking in comparison to the West. They follow a more traditional style of education.

 

LadyYuna
Member # 3841
 - posted
Hi Newcomer,

Thanks for your reply. I did a search as you suggested, and now my head is spinning with information. But it's a good thing! Thanks.

Thanks you for pointing out that Eastern educational styles differ from that of Western ones. I had a few African teachers in college and I did notice that their teaching style was based on memorization...and it was rare that we talked about anything in class. As for my stats, I'm a 22 (almost 23) year old American female.

So how do you support yourself in Egypt while getting educated? Or do you just save up a lot of dough before you go?

Yuna

 

newcomer
Member # 1056
 - posted
Salams Yuna

Glad you found the information, as you see there are now many centers in Cairo, although the Fajr Center and Qortoba Institutes are the best known and I think the more established ones, but you might find others that meet your needs better. However, I would be a little wary of committing yourself you any one of them by paying a large amount in advance, unless you feel really confident that they are offering just what you are looking for.

If you want to study full-time, it will be difficult to get a job that pays you enough to support yourself here, to pay the rent, etc., particularly if you want to maintain your current standard of living and use of western products (these are all very expensive now since the Egyptian currency was floated last year and the Egyptian pound became even weaker against the dollar). People usually either seem to come with the funds to support themselves throughout their period of study or get a job, preferably before coming to get a good income and then study part-time. If you wait to look for jobs when you arrive you will generally be paid at the local rate and not the “ex-pat rate” with fringe benefits, and that will make a big difference to your standard of living.

As far as I know none of the centers offer scholarships for you to study here, particularly as you are coming from the States as they are run as businesses to make profits, but I think that Al-Azhar does offer some scholarships to international students.

 

LadyYuna
Member # 3841
 - posted
Walaikum Salaam,

When you say "Western products", what do you mean? Things like American-made shampoo and pantyhose come to mind. Because if I can purchase it before coming then it's no big deal. The only think I'm picky about is my apartment. But I have a penpal in Egypt and he said that he can probably help me find a decent flat for less than what they are charging on edar or one of those other housing sites. I don't need super luxury facilities.

What can an English speaking person do for a job in Cairo? How do you get paid? Do you need to open a bank account?


Yuna


quote:
Originally posted by newcomer:
Salams Yuna

Glad you found the information, as you see there are now many centers in Cairo, although the Fajr Center and Qortoba Institutes are the best known and I think the more established ones, but you might find others that meet your needs better. However, I would be a little wary of committing yourself you any one of them by paying a large amount in advance, unless you feel really confident that they are offering just what you are looking for.

If you want to study full-time, it will be difficult to get a job that pays you enough to support yourself here, to pay the rent, etc., particularly if you want to maintain your current standard of living and use of western products (these are all very expensive now since the Egyptian currency was floated last year and the Egyptian pound became even weaker against the dollar). People usually either seem to come with the funds to support themselves throughout their period of study or get a job, preferably before coming to get a good income and then study part-time. If you wait to look for jobs when you arrive you will generally be paid at the local rate and not the “ex-pat rate” with fringe benefits, and that will make a big difference to your standard of living.

As far as I know none of the centers offer scholarships for you to study here, particularly as you are coming from the States as they are run as businesses to make profits, but I think that Al-Azhar does offer some scholarships to international students.



 

newcomer
Member # 1056
 - posted
Wa alaykum salaam Yuna

Anything that is imported is much more expensive here due to import duty, the new exchange rates, and the effects of inflation There are some foreign goods that are made under licence here now which keeps the price down like Palmolive shampoo and some Lux shower gels, but it is a good idea to bring a basic stock of your favorite toiletries until you work out possible substitutes.

But the thing that I was mainly referring to was foods items. If you are someone who wants to eat out regularly at Macdonalds, KFC, TGIF, or you must have a certain breakfast cereal, or certain cookies, etc.etc. then be prepared for a big shock in their comparative prices. You can live quite cheaply in Egypt, and also quite well, if you eat local food and don't eat out a lot, but your food tastes and the style of life you want to/are able to live will be the big determinant on the size of the budget you will need to live on here.

As for work, as I mentioned earlier, that largely depends on what your focus for being here is, whether you are coming to work or study, and how much you need to earn to support yourself, i.e. whether you are looking for part-time or full-time work, and what your own personal work skills and qualifications are. People are always recommending the foreign women here to work as a teacher or do tuition, but the success of this will depend on how lucky you are to find a good school/students that actually pays a decent salary on time. Other jobs could be in editing or office work, but these will depend on your skills /luck /connections. Try browsing round some of the links to employment sites that have been given on ES in the past to get a better idea of the situation.

Pay is often given in cash, as checks and credit cards are not used here often, but a bank account would be useful if you have savings that you want to have access to here, or if you will be needing to transfer funds, although that could be done with your credit card on an ATM machine at a cost.

Hope this has been useful but it sounds like you need to work out the focus of your trip first and your need for funds. Good luck and may Allah guide you to the best choice.
 

karinfarid
Member # 3352
 - posted
salaamu aleikum, Yuna

I think this link will be usefule for you:
http://www.geocities.com/learnarabicincairo/

re. Fajr, they are surely well known everywhere, but that seems to reflect also in their prices. An Austrian friend of mine took an Arabic course just 2 months ago. Since she booked it from Germany, she had to book and pay for the min. 75 hours package, but when they arranged her schedule they could not distribute all the hours, so in the end - instead of giving her back the money for the not used hours, she could only ask them to keep them 'reserved' for her, and try to come back in summer to utilize those hours. She liked her teacher a lot, and the lessons - one on one - were very good, though anything about Islam did not come up, except in personal conversations.

The flat they arranged for her was very close to the Dokki Fajr centre, beautiful, fully equipped and very very clean, wow, mashaAllah, but also the amount of EGP 2.500,-- per month could have been used in a better way (my opinion), and it was quite noisy at rush hour. (that's nearly all the time?)

Their pick up service is also very expensive, if you have a friend with car, let him/her pick you up from the airport.

Fajr centre are trying their best to let you exchange your expensive Euros with them, if you can check the rates locally and if possible exchange yourself. At the end of her stay she had to exchange one last time eur 100, and they guy she relied on him asked her to meet her at Khan il Khalil market after he tried to ignore her phone calls at first. He was late, and then exchanged at rate 1Eur for 8EGP, at this time the normal 'blackmarket' was around 8.25, in the next 2 days the Euro rate fell suddenly a little under EGP 8 and guess what? the guy called her up and asked her to compensate him the difference! (which she did not, of course).

I hope this is useful, if we can help you out with any more information, just ask. I can give the e-mail of my friend if you like, she is in Vienna now, and if you'd like to contact me: karinfarid@hotmail.com

salam, Karin
 

LadyYuna
Member # 3841
 - posted
Salaam Karin and Newcomer,

Thanks for your input. As for the fast food, neither me nor the sister who is coming to Egypt with me is big on fast food. Since I read that it's not hard to buy fresh food and veggies in Egypt, I'm sure my friend and I will be cooking our meals most nights or eating with local vendors. That's what I did when I went to Paris on a shoestring, and it worked out well.

All the information is very overwhelming, but in a good way. I'm really glad there is so much information out there about these schools. It makes me feel more secure about what I'm doing.

After reading the website Karin provided me with I am concerned about housing and being cheated. Neither me nor my friend has a lot of money. We can't afford to mess around or be messed around with. Do you think there is more security in going with ILI or some Western based institute or just go for it with the Egyptian brothers and sisters? Should I try and find an apartment on our own or using the school. We wouldn't mind arriving early and looking for our own place, but I don't know how successful we will be as two non-Arabic speaking women who will only be in Egypt for 2 months.


Ma Salaama

Yuna

 

Dalia
Member # 1230
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by LadyYuna:
. As for the fast food, neither me nor the sister who is coming to Egypt with me is big on fast food. Since I read that it's not hard to buy fresh food and veggies in Egypt, I'm sure my friend and I will be cooking our meals most nights or eating with local vendors. That's what I did when I went to Paris on a shoestring, and it worked out well.

If you do that you will manage to keep your budget for food very low. The difference of prices for imported vs. local stuff is tremendous; I have friends who complain about spending a lot of their budget on food because they buy a lot of imported stuff. I myself spend very little although my fridge is always well filled and I do eat out a lot. So I guess it just depends on your personal habits.

As for the Fajr - I went there three years ago and the experience was both - nice and frustrating at the same time. But I don't want to repeat myself - I wrote a lot about the Fajr on different occasions on this board, so if you did a search you probably came across all the significant information.

One more thing, karin - I booked and payed a 75 hour course from Germany as well and had a few hours left in the end - due to my schedule (I insisted on five instead of seven days of class a week because I wanted sufficient time to do sightseeing etc.) and the fact that my teacher got sick a few times, and they payed me back the money for the hours I had not used without any problems.

Also they offer Arabic classes as well as Islamic teachings, so you should not necessarily expect to hear anything about Islam if you book a language class (which I think is good). You will however find many others there who are very interested in Islam and there will sure be a lot of opportunity for exchange.

Good luck ...

 

LadyYuna
Member # 3841
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dalia:
Also they offer Arabic classes as well as Islamic teachings, so you should not necessarily expect to hear anything about Islam if you book a language class (which I think is good). You will however find many others there who are very interested in Islam and there will sure be a lot of opportunity for exchange.


Yes, talking about religion in a language course would be a bit unprofessional. I was thinking that one of the schools my offer different kinds of courses (Arabic, Tajweed, Principles of Islam), etc.

 

shumza
Member # 913
 - posted
Qortoba offers Tajweed classes. Islamic Studies used to be a part of their Mohamed Ibn Saud Program be it is no longer offered. It might be better for you to find housing on your own.
 
newcomer
Member # 1056
 - posted
Assalamu alaykum Yuna

From your initial messages I had the impression that you were planning on coming for a long period to study Arabic and Islamic studies. Basically if you are just planning to come for a couple of months and you don’t have any prior background, the level you will reach through the methodology that you will be taught by here, will be just to learn the alphabet, basic Arabic pronunciation, and some vocabulary. To start to learn how to use the language you will need at least 6-12 months.

Also if you are only coming for a couple of months I would suggest that you either let your friend arrange an apartment for you or the school as short-term leases are always more expensive and two foreign women unfamilar to the local set up would have mre difficulty negotiating a fair rent, but give them a budget limit of say about 1500 LE, dependent upon the are you will be in. In Nasr City for Qortoba and Fajr, that would be something quite reasonable for a short-term let, and in Dokki, Mohandiseen, or Maadi for some of the other centers you may need to pay a little more than that for a short lease, say up to 2000.

If you are looking for Arabic, Tajweed, and Principles of Faith... for this time I would suggest that Qortoba would be your best idea as their Islamic and Tajweed classes are more established.

 

karinfarid
Member # 3352
 - posted
salaamu aleikum all,

dear Yuna, I think for accommodation if you let all of us know when you'll come exactly, I'm sure one of the other will be able to refer to you a suitable apartment in a good price range. It also depends on your living standards, I'm sure you could also find a nice clean flat for less than 1500, and if you're sharing the home, this is much more reasonable.

I'd be glad to hear from you, at least 2 weeks before you arrive, can't promise anything, but will surely keep my eyes and ears open inshaAllah.

Dalia, thank you for your information about Fajr, I was seriously starting to doubt the integrity and morals of this centre, I'm glad that there are also brothers and sisters with good experiences.

salam to all, Karin
 

Dalia
Member # 1230
 - posted
quote:
Originally posted by karinfarid:

Dalia, thank you for your information about Fajr, I was seriously starting to doubt the integrity and morals of this centre, I'm glad that there are also brothers and sisters with good experiences.

As much as I have complained about their lousy service and extreme disorganization I always thought they were genuinely friendly and sincere.

But since their classes are aimed at foreigners they should definitely be a bit more professional.

And btw, I'm not a sister ... I was the only non-veiled, non-Muslim in the whole school at that time.

[This message has been edited by Dalia (edited 25 March 2004).]
 

Dalia
Member # 1230
 - posted
Hehe ... just digging through some old threads. This is what I wrote about the Fajr almost two years ago. Maybe they improved in the meantime, I know several people complained about it, but in any case you might want to be prepared if you go there ...


I arrived in Cairo in the middle of the night. I was met at the airport by two guys(!) from the Fajr.
I had arranged and booked an apartment beforehand and it had been confirmed, but when I sat down in the car the guys told me that it had not worked out and that we had to start looking for apartments right now. So we drove around Nasr City for a few hours, they got out of the car, talked to people, and I started feeling very weird, plus I was almost fainting because I was so tired after this long trip. In the end they set me up in a huge apartment for the night, telling me I could stay there the whole time if I wanted to but I should never come home after ten at night(!).

The next morning at 7 o'clock the doorbell rang and one of the guys wanted to pick me up to go apartment hunting (they had not told me beforehand that somebody would come that early in the morning, and I had not expected it after such a long night).
However - the following week I spent apartment hunting. I spent a few nights at an apartment owned by two expat women attending the language school, and they were incredibly nice to me, but I had to sleep in their living room and felt bad about being a burden on them. It was Ramadan, and they needed the room to pray at night.
In the beginning I was really angry about the Fajr, because all this apartment hunting and moving from place to place did not exactly improve my ability to concentrate in class and learn very well, plus it was an emotional strain, I felt very lonely and detached and angry.

Also I was amazed that the school explicitly offers students to help with everyday life (at least that's what they write on their website), but nobody could even tell you where to get a map of Cairo (!) or which bus to take to certain places.

Now you're probably wondering why I'm still recommending Fajr, but the fact is I had a good time there nevertheless and I owe this to my teacher. I had private tuition so the teacher was open to quite a bit of negotiating as far as skipping pages or class hours are concerned. She was incredibly nice and smart and I liked her a lot. My roommate had another teacher and she was equally content. Also their way of teaching Arabic appeals to me. I'm very bad at grammar and theory in any language, I learn best by using the language, speaking, reading, writing. Don't know why, but after a while I sort of develop a feeling for the language and adapt many things intuitively, that's why their method worked well for me.

I learned from this experience never to expect European or American standards in Egypt as far as organization is concerned. I do think however that they should work on improving this -- I mean, most of their students are American. Also, it can't be such a big deal to type a list of minibus-numbers and -destinations, supermarkets and other useful things and hand it out to the students. That would be incredibly helpful to newcomers.
 




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