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I want to know why most of the college students and mainly the egyptian youth don't participate in politics, like vote, join political parties, debate. I would like to know the answer.
karinfarid Member # 3352
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hi, well I'm not Egyptian, but I've been here for 9 years. I think the lack of political motivation from the youth lies in the danger, that the very act of such democratic issues like vote, political debate and much more, dissent, could bring anybody big trouble with certain Egypt. establishments, which I prefer not to name, and I hope you understand what I mean.
Nsani Member # 3071
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You guys have to see what is the real issue here. In the arab world, the problem is not that people; particularly the youth are not motivated to involve in political participation. They are simply being brainwashed by their hypocritic leaders, who are actually more of cheats.I do not think they regard democracy as important as eliminating their "enemy". Their attention is focused not democracy but on justice. And justice to them is not in terms of a part of the democratic system but part of a plough to achieve their dream of a world ruled by 'sharia'. An arab youth is more concerned with what should be done with Israel rather than whether or not elections are free and fair. To them democracy is a western concept and since anything western is a 'bad', they feel that political participation would mean they are being westernized. Disembling on the part of their leaders takes them several steps behind. A typical arab youth never thinks 'critically' because he reasons shallowly. But political participation requires critical thinking and decision making. However, I am intending to blackmail them. This is my way of contributing to their renaissance.
Keino
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quote:Originally posted by Nsani: You guys have to see what is the real issue here. In the arab world, the problem is not that people; particularly the youth are not motivated to involve in political participation. They are simply being brainwashed by their hypocritic leaders, who are actually more of cheats.I do not think they regard democracy as important as eliminating their "enemy". Their attention is focused not democracy but on justice. And justice to them is not in terms of a part of the democratic system but part of a plough to achieve their dream of a world ruled by 'sharia'. An arab youth is more concerned with what should be done with Israel rather than whether or not elections are free and fair. To them democracy is a western concept and since anything western is a 'bad', they feel that political participation would mean they are being westernized. Disembling on the part of their leaders takes them several steps behind. A typical arab youth never thinks 'critically' because he reasons shallowly. But political participation requires critical thinking and decision making. However, I am intending to blackmail them. This is my way of contributing to their renaissance.
This is very unfortunate and could be devastating for your country. I hope that way of thinking fades away soon so that all in Egypt can part-take in making Egypt a better country. One can't keep living in the past while letting people control their present and future....Get involved young Egyptians and help to make a positive change in your country...
Monica Member # 2621
posted To even start hoping for young Egyptians to get involved seriously in the political future of their country, there should be a step-by-step process. And a change in school programs would be the crucial starting point to motivate them to genuinely participate, instead of becoming followers or plain indifferent, a change in the status of women is also another step..the list is long!
In any case, how can you have real democracy in an authoritarian society?
Keino
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quote:Originally posted by Monica: To even start hoping for young Egyptians to get involved seriously in the political future of their country, there should be a step-by-step process. And a change in school programs would be the crucial starting point to motivate them to genuinely participate, instead of becoming followers or plain indifferent, a change in the status of women is also another step..the list is long!
In any case, how can you have real democracy in an authoritarian society?
You are right Monica. Are you Egyptian? How exactly is the political system there?
Monica Member # 2621
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Keino,
In a nutshell, it is certainly an authoritarian system, which allows democratic 'orientation' under scrutiny!!!
And this is not a joke!
I don't reside in Egypt, although I was born and lived there, growing up. I still have a lot of close relatives and friends in Egypt, and fortunately my work takes me to the Middle East a few times a year. So I am extremely familiar and informed about the region.
If you wish to read about Egypt and its socio-economic, political system, let me know and I will suggest a few good books.
By the way, this week, Al Ahram/English version is featuring an article discussing the political system in Egypt: http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2004/673/op2.htm The article is called : ' Twice in a week'
Best regards Monica
quote:Originally posted by Keino: You are right Monica. Are you Egyptian? How exactly is the political system there?
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 17 January 2004).]
sciencesailor Member # 3348
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To Nsani and the likes: Surprised to witness all those "generalizations" in a single letter! I am also surprised to see all this disrespect plus prejudice towards the people "Living in Egypt". Surprised that you simply say we the Egyptians are not aware of the need for Democracy because of cultural plus religous barrieres. Monica (as Uncle Sam) suggests a need to change our educational materials. Gentlemen/Ladies from the West: Could any of you ever dare to say you do not have red lines in your own countries that no one could touch not to mention tresspass?! To name the latest: What really happened in 9/11 in America? Who/How was it planned? Mossad planned it and brainwashed remotelycontrolled militant moslems executed it? Uncle Sam forbids asking these questions! In Europe: Who planned killing Princess Diana And her boyfriend Doddy ElFaied? The Westerners accepted just throwing flowers at her grave and no one dares to ask. Yes, the involvement in politics in Egypt is not widespread but not for your reasons. Try to know how the Egyptians dare to spell their political views in the opposition newspapers. Even the government owned newspapers have plenty of room to express a wide political spectrum. I know that the Moslem Brotherhood members (illegal organization) prefer to spread their words away from the press, but no doubt they are just a minor part of the Egyptian youth. I myself send my views/letters to the famous "Barid El Ahram" and usually they are published without editing. I was studying in USA for Masters/PhD and my roommate for 2 years a young man from Botswana (in South Africa) was curious to know about the communist party of USA. He showed me how he was questioned by the foreign student advisor, his letters were examined at the post office to prevent him from receiving the newspaper of the US communist party, ----(guess what he could have faced if he studied in America now, Yes to Guantanamo without Love!). A young (American this time) woman friend told me how she thought she lived in a absolutely free country, picked up the phone dialed the White House and expressed her views. Results: her phone was under Uncle Sam's monitoring, she was followed by persons wherever she went------. I do not think we need the western mercy in the form of Democracy as if it will solve all our problems, nor we care for your approval/acceptance of how we think/behave in our own lands. No single race/culture/religion has the perfection in its present day living manners/attitudes nor previous heritage, we all have our points of strength/weaknesses. As we say in Islam: The Perfection is only for God. Salam.
Monica Member # 2621
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Dear sciencesailor,
I congratulate you for speaking your mind openly, and getting your letters published. Your writing skills are convincing, that's for sure.
We do have that in common, because all my letters are published wherever I send them, wether in Egypt or elsewhere. But I am now convinced that it does not really help much in terms of changes, I think rather, that it is a very intelligent way of allowing 'democratic views', and giving an opportunity to people to vent, wether in Egypt or elsewhere. Same thing.
But, I took my writings a little further to make sure that I can make a small difference. I am part of an international human rights organization, I write, and I am also in a position where I'm frequently invited as a public speaker regarding human rights issues; so I know for a fact that the West the East the North and the South - political systems - are not exactly flawless, to say the least.
In my 'humble' opinion, a well informed statement, a well intended suggestion, or a plain comment are far from demanding perfection. I also did not in any way state anything disrespectful towards Egypt.
Personally, I see the political system in the West as a charade - if this is offending to those believing that the Western political system is flawless, people... this is only MY HUMBLE OPINION towards a political system, based on my knowledge about the subject matter - But the question was about the Egyptian political system, and I stated my views.
September 11: anything is possible, but will we ever know?
I consider myself a well informed individual, and give myself the right to speak openly about any issue, as far as my knowledge goes. That's how my highly educated EGYPTIAN father [A Professor and Researcher] brought me up! So, by expressing my views constructively, or by making a comment or a suggestion, I surely don't feel that I'm speaking for Uncle Sam - or for any 'khawaga' as far as I'm concerned.
My question to you is: why did you pursue your Master degree/Ph.D in the USA and not in Egypt?
Also please remember:I am Egyptian!
Salam, Monica If you wish, please CHECK THE THREAD: 'Madly in love with Egypt'
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 18 January 2004).]
Monica Member # 2621
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It is also the same in many other countries, may I add. Although it's a fact that political parties around the world do have a body of young intellectuals, it certainly did not prevent the 'search' for weapons of mass destruction through a devastating war in Iraq.
Take Hollywood star Sean Penn for example, the US actor and director said;[ he did not want to criticise governments or presidents, but he was concerned at the lack of information being given to the American public. ] he also said: 'If there is going to be blood on my hands, I didn't want that blood to be invisible' and he found it "baffling" that US officials had not revealed more evidence of their suspicions that Iraq has programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction.]
Sean is not exactly 'welcomed' in many 'establishments' ..........
But again...C'est la vie!
Always in good spirit! Monica [QUOTE]Originally posted by karinfarid: hi, well I'm not Egyptian, but I've been here for 9 years. I think the lack of political motivation from the youth lies in the danger, that the very act of such democratic issues like vote, political debate and much more, dissent, could bring anybody big trouble with certain Egypt. establishments, which I prefer not to name, and I hope you understand what I mean.[/
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 18 January 2004).]
sciencesailor Member # 3348
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I was replying to Njans extremist views. Answering your question: I did have graduate (Master in Chemistry) courses at Alexandria University but was a failure. I was at that time(1972-1974) working 12 hrs day/night shifts in the start up of an integrated petroleum refinery. My dreams/ambitions were to enjoy being a scholar at an Am university plus learning/living the Am culture in its homeland not through books/movies. I managed to have the academic degree but I realized that I - on the long run - can not accept being totally westernized/Americanized. At that time I was single trying to experiment transfering to another culture but after 4 years I realized that deep inside me I can not accept all the social values of the West. On getting back to Egypt I resumed praying/stopped drinking alcoholics/looked for a wife to get me back strongly to Islam and just yesterday we celebrated our 19 th wedding anniverary. She had a pilgramage to Mecca (once) does the Ommra annually with her mother, I have not been to Saudia Arabia and up till now I think I am a good moslem but without a desire to go to saudia Arabia! I thank God for the caring/loving wife, good health, and enjoyable life-style. I think I still have positive added Am cultural characteristics, to name one; at my age (56) I still run a hourse track (At Semoha Club) almost daily. I hope that answered your question.
Monica Member # 2621
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Dear sciencesailor,
I find it fascinating when we can at least take specific characteristics/strengths from a culture, and apply it to our own, without abolishing who we really are.
I have to say that it was wonderful to read that you are married 19 years, and still appreciate your spouse and that is the greatest of all! Congratulations on your wedding anniversary!
The Smouha club and the horse track...(that's super...daily? must be in great shape) you reminded me of beautiful Smouha, where I did reside while growing up, at one point! Is the croquet area still there?
Wishing you the best, always! Monica
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 20 January 2004).]
Bent Masr Member # 3429
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hello
u now most young egyptions like my self are very intrested into what is really going on in the world some of u love to express our felings but u now most people are scared because of our presedents and the controll that the goverment is doing. every one is scared because once u open ur mouth u get sent to prison so people like to keep their thoughts to their selves.
aya
bay212 Member # 3424
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Will the western world keep promoting democracy in the M.E. if the fundamentalist start winning free democratic elections in the oil rich arab countries..They sure didn't protest years ago in algeria when the fundamentalist won the free elections and the army took over. Beware what you wish for.What about South America , they've been toying with democracy and free trade and all of that western rich countries slogans .Where did that lead them to ? Down the drain ..(brasil , Arg. , Chilie).May be the western style democracy doesn't work everywhere ,nor does free trade.......This was my 2 cents worth after spending 2 weeks in Egypt during xmas vacation.I'm an Egyptian living in sunny,democratic southern california and enjoing it
sciencesailor Member # 3348
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To Ms Monica Thanks for your kind reply & best wishes to you too. Semoha club has witnessed several new installations and expansion of most of the existing buildings. Yes, the croquet area is still there plus additional building with a lobby downstairs and a dining restaurant upstairs where I enjoy having my dinner (5 PM) in summer time at that restaurant while facing the end of the horse track. The scene of the final running of the horses at the finishing line plus listening to what the Jockies say to each others (usually obscene/volgar accusations of not being honest!)is of interest to me. I wonder how/why those poor people at the stadium bet the few money they have trusting those wild Jockies! 3 days ago I handed over a complain to the club's board requesting maintenance to the runnig track plus adding lightening to enable the chief excuitives/general managers (like myself) to practice their daily running after the sunset (takes place early in winter). The running track has been in a miserable case and no one of the people using it complain! Back to the issue of Democracy; I wonder if we the Egyptians have additional patience genes in our chromosomes that no other race might have! We, I think, have been accustomed to suffer silently until someone else solve our problems. Individually, the people in my work do not waste any opportunity to get promoted (salary increase/even payless considerations) but outside their individuality they are either blind or unaware of the need for a change to the better! I am afraid of this generalization, but tell me if it does not take place within the cream of the society (members of the 1 st class social/sporting clubs) so when/where the desire for the better takes place? Salam. PS. Yes, I look in a good shape; showers in this cold winter time daily early in the morning (6:30AM) with cold water, run the horse track after getting back from the refinery (> 4PM) almost daily, none smoker, still able to enjoy the sensual pleasures and satisfy my loving partner, but I know that all I have been doing is just slowing down a little bit the aging processes. Nothing could be comparable to being young again. Ce la vee. (excuse my volatile/poor french).
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