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Tigerlily Member # 3567	posted From correspondents in Cairo June 08, 2008 04:26am EGYPT'S parliament today outlawed female circumcision except in cases of "medical necessity", a condition that could undermine the ban, parliamentary sources said. .... http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23830134-5005961,00.html Medical necessity WTH???
With a name like Smuckers Member # 10289	posted lol I would be curious to know what medical necessity is, too.
cloudberry Member # 11163	posted Hm, I thought I read long ago that FGM was banned already but with this same exception And that this exception was the problem because "everyone" used it - I think it is not defined anywhere what these exceptions are. So in the end this doesn't help anything IMO.
Dzosser Member # 9572	posted quote: Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: lol I would be curious to know what medical necessity is, too. Er..well..when the labia minora are in excess and hence protruding in a way causing friction during motion,this will cause a horny female which could make her loose her virginity..so it is better to trim her as early as possible to keep her safe
* 7ayat * Member # 7043	posted There's no medical necessity for FGM. By saying something like that, the government is legalising the tradition. Because now any father who does it to his daughter will just say it's a "necsessity." The day FGM is banned, and everyone who does it is punished, will be the day I know this country will go forward.
humanist Member # 12798	posted Let's all just puke simultaneously. How cowardly of the Egyptian authorities. But no big surprise. Caving to the religous fanatics is what governments do best.
harankash Member # 14248	posted so what operation should we devise for the 'horny males'? something without anaesthetic that can be done on the kitchen table preferably with an old razor blade!
jean_bean Member # 13715	posted just more of the same ole BS. and agree with ya 7ayat !....that will be a day to celebrate indeed. and harankash....you are bad bad bad...and I have an old rusty one for ya. any volunteers?
Tigerlily Member # 3567	posted I wonder how can they allow this still going on?? Did the Egyptian Government at least asked for scientific medical proof that in some cases female circumcision is need?? I just don't believe what's going on....
desertgirl Member # 12450	posted There was an article in the Belgian newspaper today; FGM legally forbidden in Egypt. I will post the link, but it is in Dutch, so no one will understand. http://makr.roularta.be/PDFPage?page=7&groepCode=DZ It is the article on the rightside of the page (Egypt).
Tigerlily Member # 3567	posted DG, the link doesn't work. Please try again.
desertgirl Member # 12450	posted http://makr.roularta.be/epaper/ShowPage.do?nextPage=true The article is on page 7. The previous link works for me, TL (but maybe not abroad? )
Tigerlily Member # 3567	posted Clerics oppose part of children's law in Egypt Sun 8 Jun 2008, 15:19 GMT By Mohamed Abdellah CAIRO, June 8 (Reuters) - Muslim scholars in Egypt on Sunday criticised aspects of a new law on children approved by parliament on Saturday against the opposition of the socially conservative Muslim Brotherhood. The scholars said the legislation went against Islamic law by allowing women to register children under their own family names and by setting 18 as the minimum age for marriage. Under the previous law, children had to take their family name from their father, even if his identity was in doubt. A separate law, which remains in force despite the new legislation, allows girls to marry at 16 and men at 18. In the countryside some girls still marry at a younger age. Mohamed Mukhtar al-Mahdi, chairman of the Sharia Associations, which runs many Egyptian mosques, said naming children after their mothers was unacceptable because it was in direct contravention of a Koranic verse. The verse reads: "Call them by (the names of) their fathers: that is juster in the sight of God." It continues: "But if you do know not their father's names, then they are your brothers in faith." Mohamed Ra'fat Osman, a scholar at the Azhar religious university, said that the ban on marriage under the age of 18 could not stand from the point of view of Islamic law. "Islam allows marriage at any suitable age, provided the person seeking marriage has the means and his circumstances enable him to form a family," he added. Osman, a member of the powerful Islamic Research Institute, added: "The people who drafted this law are trying to transfer Western culture to the Islamic world regardless of whether this culture is suitable to the Islamic religion, customs and traditions." Another Azhar scholar and teacher, Abdullah Samak, said he objected to any implementation of the law that prevents parents from disciplining their children, physically if necessary. The law allows for six months in prison for parents who harm their children or do not treat them with dignity. The law also contains a ban on the widespread practice of cutting the genitals of girls, sometimes known as female genital mutilation, with a maximum penalty of two years in jail. An existing law bans the practice, which is favoured by some clerics but opposed by the religious establishment. Members of the Muslim Brotherhood, the main opposition force in parliament with 87 of the 454 seats, spoke against these and other aspects of the new law during the parliamentary debate. (Reporting by Mohamed Abdellah, Writing by Jonathan Wright) http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnL08396011.html
MK the Most Interlectual Member # 8356	posted quote: Originally posted by * 7ayat : There's no medical necessity for FGM. By saying something like that, the government is legalising the tradition. Because now any father who does it to his daughter will just say it's a "necsessity." The day FGM is banned, and everyone who does it is punished, will be the day I know this country will go forward. I am one of the biggest fighters against FGM, but I have to state here that some adult, mature, fully consented women* seek medical help upon their full choice and only their own choice when their labia show certain deformities that could be physiologically or aesthetically bothering them. Most of those women with medical indications experience severe pain and discomfort with sexual intercourse or even with wearing tight clothes. Some others watch too much porn. Before and after pictures of Labioplasty. (Warning: Graphic content)
With a name like Smuckers Member # 10289	posted MY EYES !!
Tigerlily Member # 3567	posted This thread is about FGM and nothing else.
* 7ayat * Member # 7043	posted quote: Originally posted by MK the Most Interlectual: quote: Originally posted by * 7ayat : There's no medical necessity for FGM. By saying something like that, the government is legalising the tradition. Because now any father who does it to his daughter will just say it's a "necsessity." The day FGM is banned, and everyone who does it is punished, will be the day I know this country will go forward. I am one of the biggest fighters against FGM, but I have to state here that some adult, mature, fully consented women* seek medical help upon their full choice and only their own choice when their labia show certain deformities that could be physiologically or aesthetically bothering them. Most of those women with medical indications experience severe pain and discomfort with sexual intercourse or even with wearing tight clothes. Some others watch too much porn. Before and after pictures of Labioplasty. (Warning: Graphic content) Yeah but that's not the medical neccesity the Egyptian gov is talking about. For them a woman getting sexual pleasure is what makes it important to remove the clitoris. Jerks
MK the Most Interlectual Member # 8356	posted ^^ The law functions in the light of evidence provided by experts in different fields. The judges asked medical doctors whether there are any surgical indications for ''changing the female genitals'' and the doctors answered with yes. Therefore, the law has to include this statement. I know theory is different from practice, but if we want to have an informed discussion we have to know all sides of the story and leave emotions aside. The problem is that "FGM" is NOT called FGM in Arabic. Instead, ختان الاناث is the term used to describe all kinds of operations done down there, and in my opinion, that is the reason for all this confusion.
MK the Most Interlectual Member # 8356	posted Some people have no clue whatsoever about Egyptian culture and just insist on making total mice of themselves. Everything I'm saying is directly related to FGM but only Egyptians and those who know Arabic know what I mean.
Lumos Member # 14589	posted Typical of the Egyptian Government to focus on highlighting the 'medical necessity' of the teeny, tiny, miniscule, percentage of women requiring labioplasty, when seeking to outlaw the butchering of millions of little Egyptian girls. How unusually considerate of them. To include 'medical necessity', in the context of widespread FGM atrocities being inflicted on children, does seem like an insidious loophole. In my entire life, I have never personally known or heard of one woman having to have this procedure as a 'medical necessity'. I don't know how the legislation is worded but the term 'medical necessity' had to be applied, from a legal perspective" it should be rigorously qualified and statistics defined. There are some adult women, as rightly pointed out above, who may need this procedure carried out, but the likelihood of this seems about as low as a man needing surgery after accidentally chopping off his penis in an electric can opener. Would he be denied treatment as this hadn't been pre-defined in law?
Tigerlily Member # 3567	posted Thankfully we are back to the original topic again. I wonder what Suzanne Mubarak has to say about 'medical neccesity' since she started the strong compaign to ban FGM in her own country? Seriously what did she accomplish??? The majority of girls in Egypt gonna keep on getting mutilated and traumatized for life - some of them even killed - because of this brutal tradition.
MK the Most Interlectual Member # 8356	posted LOL @ Thankfully we are back to the original topic again. When Egypt's #1 expert talks, we better listen. LOL
Dzosser Member # 9572	posted Last week a baby of six months lost his dick during a circumcision carried out by some jerk replacing an absent physician on a laser beam machine..the guy said to have done that out of strong need for the 150 EGP. The kid's mother still believes her baby could get some sort of prick (sorry off topic)
Tigerlily Member # 3567	posted OMG... is this true?? They do male circumcision now by laser? Sorry but I am not up to date. I am thinking to also get my sons circumsized; before I totally refused this procedure on them but now I changed my mind.