posted
Im trying to figure out the 'class system' in Egypt, not that I like it. Here in the UK, you do your job, you finish and then you are treated like everyone else, a normal citizen. A taxi driver can hang out with a doctor.
Whereas in Egypt, I found that you are treated according to your job. A street cleaner will be treated like the trash he sweeps. I was talking to a waiter, he finished university (in egypt, free), but is stuck as a waiter, everyone treating him like crap, even though he is educated. he has to work to support his family.
What are the 'status' of these jobs:
interior designer telephonist teacher in a government school teacher in a private school tour guide restaurant manager (not owner)
Cheekyferret Member # 15263
posted
A tour guide is on a par with a street cleaner, the only difference is you can trust a street cleaner to look after the broom and cart and not try to take it home whereas you can't trust a tour guide with a tourist
Nine Member # 17234
posted
I'm speechless!
Questionmarks Member # 12336
posted
In Europe there is also a class-system. Do you think an attorney, a doctor or a judge will socialise on regular base with for example a garbageman or a factory-worker? Do you think a bank treats the taxidriver the same as someone with a million pound on his bankaccount? Of course not. People prefer to go along with people who are more or less alike, they can talk and live on the same 'level'. It's bullshit to state that Egypt has a class-system and Europe hasn't. The whole world has class-systems! They have had, they still have and they will have systems like that in future. The only difference is that by law we are equal, we have the same rights and obligations, but people get treated different and we all more or less treat people different too. I don't know each and everyones personal limits, but everybody sometimes meets persons that they don't want to been seen with ánd people we should like to be seen with. So, we are all making differences in treatments...
samaka Member # 9228
posted
Interesting subject. I remember the Egyptian husband of one of my friends who was totally paranoid about the class system in Egypt. Apparently it wasn't possible to sneeze without being considered lower class.
The people who are most concerned with class in any country are those who have suddenly come into money and don't know how to behave.
Class is the ability to treat everyone kindly and equally, whatever your background.
Clear and QSY Member # 15597
posted
quote:Originally posted by samaka: The people who are most concerned with class in any country are those who have suddenly come into money and don't know how to behave.
Class is the ability to treat everyone kindly and equally, whatever your background.
good observation
Cheekyferret Member # 15263
posted
I was pulled aside only last week by a parent who pays me to teach her daughter privately, she requested I don't talk to the guy on the street who helps restaurant customers park in case folk know I am her private tutor. She was mortified to see me talking to him.
watchman Member # 17397
posted
quote:Originally posted by Cheekyferret: you can trust a street cleaner to look after the broom and cart and not try to take it home whereas you can't trust a tour guide with a tourist
hahaha!
watchman Member # 17397
posted
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: In Europe there is also a class-system. Do you think an attorney, a doctor or a judge will socialise on regular base with for example a garbageman or a factory-worker? Do you think a bank treats the taxidriver the same as someone with a million pound on his bankaccount? Of course not. People prefer to go along with people who are more or less alike, they can talk and live on the same 'level'. It's bullshit to state that Egypt has a class-system and Europe hasn't. The whole world has class-systems! They have had, they still have and they will have systems like that in future. The only difference is that by law we are equal, we have the same rights and obligations, but people get treated different and we all more or less treat people different too. I don't know each and everyones personal limits, but everybody sometimes meets persons that they don't want to been seen with ánd people we should like to be seen with. So, we are all making differences in treatments...
yes you are right. but i am talking about it in a more general sense. i guess in the uk its not as apparent and 'in-your-face as it is in Egypt.
i try and treat everyone equally with respect. manners do not cost a thing. simple things, actually thanking the shisha boy every time he changes the coal, or when a waiter fills my glass, instead of purposefully ignoring them. Coming from UK everyone is so nice with me, wants to be my friend etc.. but treat everyone else that is apparently 'lower' than them like ****. (btw i look egyptian 100%, this only happens once they find out that im not egy and have come from UK to live in Egypt. plus muslim to boot)
young at heart Member # 10365
posted
I think class in the UK depends on where you live. I live in a small town and the pubs I know have a solicitor standing next to a council worker next to a financial advisor next to a factory worker. Obviously in a city there is probably more of a divide.
Questionmarks Member # 12336
posted
quote:Originally posted by watchman:
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: In Europe there is also a class-system. Do you think an attorney, a doctor or a judge will socialise on regular base with for example a garbageman or a factory-worker? Do you think a bank treats the taxidriver the same as someone with a million pound on his bankaccount? Of course not. People prefer to go along with people who are more or less alike, they can talk and live on the same 'level'. It's bullshit to state that Egypt has a class-system and Europe hasn't. The whole world has class-systems! They have had, they still have and they will have systems like that in future. The only difference is that by law we are equal, we have the same rights and obligations, but people get treated different and we all more or less treat people different too. I don't know each and everyones personal limits, but everybody sometimes meets persons that they don't want to been seen with ánd people we should like to be seen with. So, we are all making differences in treatments...
yes you are right. but i am talking about it in a more general sense. i guess in the uk its not as apparent and 'in-your-face as it is in Egypt.
i try and treat everyone equally with respect. manners do not cost a thing. simple things, actually thanking the shisha boy every time he changes the coal, or when a waiter fills my glass, instead of purposefully ignoring them. Coming from UK everyone is so nice with me, wants to be my friend etc.. but treat everyone else that is apparently 'lower' than them like ****. (btw i look egyptian 100%, this only happens once they find out that im not egy and have come from UK to live in Egypt. plus muslim to boot)
Perhaps this is mixing up two things: being polite or well mannered and class related treatment. If an Egyptian does not thank a waiter for filling a glass or something like that, he is simply not polite. Perhaps he hasn't learned how to behave and is lower class himself. There are no reasons to place yourself above another simply because of occupation or wealth, as long as both behave as they should, also in Egypt. But, there is an angle in this; it happens that lower class people are approaching higher classes out of opportunistic reasons, not out of politeness. It's difficult to see the difference at once, so perhaps taking distance is an answer to something that might come. Again even when taking distance people can be polite. To make it easy :Being a woman and higher class is also different. A woman is considered to keep distance and not to react on any approach, even not from higher classes. Cause that would degrade her to lower class herself The rules for Western women are different, because being Western is automatically considerd as higher class, and talking to strangers can be forgiven because of the background, but at the same time it is a signal that you are far from their world...
watchman Member # 17397
posted
^^ mind freeze!
i still don't understand how westerners are automatically considered 'upper class'. is it because they seem/are more educated, they can afford a plain ticket, or is it basically because they ARE FROM THE WEST and thats it, because it seems to be!
Questionmarks Member # 12336
posted
I guess it is because of a combination of factors: - Every Westerner seems richer as the average Egyptian; they can afoord to travel, plus they are free to travel. - Most Westerners seem more educated as the average Egyptian, education is on a higher level and more people are educated. - Perhaps the colonial past still has influence, foreign populations have placed themselves above them for ages. - The media. If you are born and raised in a country which is so different as your own country, and the media are covering Western movies, western music, western television, western football etc. you imagine yourself that all this is reality and this reality is on a higher standard as your own... Perhaps more...
watchman Member # 17397
posted
quote:Originally posted by Questionmarks: I guess it is because of a combination of factors: - Every Westerner seems richer as the average Egyptian; they can afoord to travel, plus they are free to travel. - Most Westerners seem more educated as the average Egyptian, education is on a higher level and more people are educated. - Perhaps the colonial past still has influence, foreign populations have placed themselves above them for ages. - The media. If you are born and raised in a country which is so different as your own country, and the media are covering Western movies, western music, western television, western football etc. you imagine yourself that all this is reality and this reality is on a higher standard as your own... Perhaps more...
yes i can start to see it now
Clear and QSY Member # 15597
posted
quote:Originally posted by watchman: telephonist
Telephonist. Now there's a word I haven't heard in a while (if at all). What do you mean by telephonist? A receptionist who answers phones (like in a doctors office) or someone who works in a call center perhaps telemarketing or customer service? I think there might be a big pay difference in these two jobs alone. In the US some telemarketers can make good money because they make commissions on phone sales.
watchman Member # 17397
posted
quote:Originally posted by Clear and QSY:
quote:Originally posted by watchman: telephonist
Telephonist. Now there's a word I haven't heard in a while (if at all). What do you mean by telephonist? A receptionist who answers phones (like in a doctors office) or someone who works in a call center perhaps telemarketing or customer service? I think there might be a big pay difference in these two jobs alone. In the US some telemarketers can make good money because they make commissions on phone sales.
did not really think about it. a call centre telephonist. i just picked random jobs to see if they differ from UK.
my thoughts:
interior designer UK:good job EGY:good job telephonist UK:crap EGY:good job? teacher in a government school UK:good job EGY:crappy? teacher in a private school UK:very good job EGY:very good job??? or just good tour guide UK: good job EGY: crap? lol restaurant manager (not owner) UK:good EGY: depends on the place. well, it probably is a good one if it has an owner who employs a manger lol
Cheekyferret Member # 15263
posted
I was applying for the same role in both a private and public school in the UK and both roles were equal in pay and hours... both req'd equal qualifications.
I got the role in the public school and when I left the lady who took the same role in the private school got my job. (my school was way more fun)
Stigma was also no different as the kids were all the same little feckers from the Midlands so both were rough as a buzzards chuff
UK use the word telephonist for someone too stupid to be given the filing to do as well... it really is just answering the telephone and transferring the call to someone who can help. Usually filled by folk fresh out of school or folk between jobs. Not a job that requires much intelligence. (well the ones we employed didn't have much)...
TBH.. in the UK if you have a job I admire you as there are so many lazy gets just taking cash from the Government...
QSL... call centre staff in sales are on low pay in the UK.. they are on 'OTE' (on track earnings) so pick up the base rate and have to sell their product to gain commission.
Call centre staff just taking incoming calls and answering basic queries are not high earners either but they must be able to read their instruction screens.
I know guys on OTE who team lead such call centres and their base rate is also very low... their problem is they are so easily replacable with the next dude who is easily trained up. No quals need be in these roles. (English as a first language is not even a requirement)
watchman Member # 17397
posted
are you teaching in cairo now then? I have managed to get a job as a teacher in a private school. how does it differ to the government ones. can i pm you some questions?
posted ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
(my school was way more fun)