I regularly have a full body massage from a masseur in Luxor. She is an English woman and properly trained. Sadly she is leaving Egypt on 7th March. She was telling me that she gets a massage from a man in a local hotel. I told her about this post on ES and she said well done for doing something about it but this man in Luxor was nothing like that. He is a good Muslim and properly trained. His wife works there as well in the gym. So I needn't worry.
I accept what she has said BUT I won't be using him. I just can't get my head round the idea of a good Muslim man being OK with giving a full body massage to someone of the opposite sex. I was going to ask my husband if it was alright with him and then realised it isn't alright with me. I can't justify/explain it to myself never mind my husband, it just seems impossible.
It is a real shame because I shall miss my massages.
With everything the Koran teaches about modesty between the sexes do you think it is right for a Muslim to give massages to someone of the opposite sex?
nevermind Member # 6674
posted
quote:Originally posted by akshar: Following on from this topic http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum3/HTML/000706.html With everything the Koran teaches about modesty between the sexes do you think it is right for a Muslim to give massages to someone of the opposite sex?
I believe each person's interpretations of his religion or other beliefs are always personal to a certain extent. Also, it is not the "activity" itself but the aims behind it that matter. Thus, going for the extreme example here, sex can be the dirtiest thing in the world if you do it with a dirty mind, while it can be the most beautiful holy experience two persons can share.
BTW in our modern world why don't you have the same worries when a woman touches you, how do you know what she is thinking actually, or what she might hiding very well? U see? Once you choose the way of suspicion, you can continue on it endlessly..
I personally enjoy a massage by a professional male EXACTLY because I joice in the thinking that he is 100% giving (or OK, maybe 98% :) and thinking of my wellbeing, instead of vice versa. Many happy massages, everyone!
ExptinCAI Member # 1439
posted
Physical therapy involves massaging and stimulating the muscles and there's nothing suggestive or sexual about it. It's part of a treatment to help your body get better.
Day spas with scented candles and mudbaths that flaunt the sensual experience? Well, regardless of which religion it is, I would say many deeply religious people would find it uncomfortable.
I myself am not comfortable with massages unless their part of a treatment because I tend to think of them as very intimate and done in the privacy of one's home. But that's just me. I have tried a spa in Cairo run by a woman from Switzerland and they have a very professional atmosphere and do offer various types of massages. Done by women, for women.
_ Member # 3567
posted
I couldn't get a massage done by any man beside my husband. I would only get one from a woman, I would be very uncomfortable with a man. I once had back problems and was sent off to a male masseur (unfortunately) and wallahy my husband was sitting each time through the whole session in the room - and he's not Egyptian. The masseur did a wonderful job though and I was able to get back to work after over a week.
MENTAL PROBLEM Member # 6608
posted
what if that muslim massuese is gay??? wouldn't that be ok?
bob the dog Member # 4691
posted
quote:Originally posted by MENTAL PROBLEM: what if that muslim massuese is gay??? wouldn't that be ok?
cancanfrench2005 Member # 6295
posted
no comment
cancanfrench2005 Member # 6295
posted
MENTAL problem what if that muslim massuese is gay??? wouldn't that be ok?
why to you say that about muslim man .....???? I am surprised to hear that about a muslim man, why he cannot be christian or jew. right...??? it seems that you donot like muslims you bitch. hii egyptians guys wake up, see what is said about you here and try to stop this sluts
MENTAL PROBLEM Member # 6608
posted
okay, what if if the masseur is gay? regardless of his religion
Nerhesi Member # 6416
posted
If your religious beliefs put him in a negative light, then simply do not use his services.
It is rather petty for you to pass judgement on him, or to even attempt to convince others to do anything but make up their own mind.
This is how extremist ideals begin - by trying to force your beliefs on the environment surrounding you.
Sam W.
[This message has been edited by Nerhesi (edited 23 February 2005).]
cancanfrench2005 Member # 6295
posted
Nerhesi, you are speaking about subject older than your age baby. better for you to go and watch tom and gerry
didi_elsayed Member # 4763
posted
she didnt wanted to abuse the muslim religion,dont catch for the word,there are gays all over the world from any religion,like it or not is a fact,even in this forum we had read about such case!Havin in mind we are all memebers of this site,this mean that we all love egypt by our own way,and we are not here to abuse Egypt,or its people or culture or religion!
sonomod Member # 3864
posted
I had a massage shortly after getting married. I had a growing stomach ulcer, a splipped disk, and ravaged nerves.
I told my hubby about it ahead of time, and noted it was goin to be a male masseur. He went pale and I told him, the entire spa is female or gay men. Afterwards my hubby was more concerned of whether the disk went back into place and how my nerves were.
He can be very abbrassive about the gay issue from a religious standpoint, but won't judge. Its between the gay person and God/Allah. It isn't our place pass judgements on the gay community. Though I do believe its their responsibility to practice safe sex and monogamy. If they want to be treated as equals to us breeders, they need to stop acting like the circus. Gays are capable of monogamous long life lasting relationships. I am not allowed to impress this upon our child, but hey she will make up her own mind.
And some of his funniest customers at the resturants he manages are gay. They make him laugh on a stressful shift. And we chose a gay neighborhood to live in because we like the people. (As long as no man hits on him, he's fine)
But in Misr. No massages by men. If I did I'd probably run into a Krissy episode and put a few gonads out of order.
akshar Member # 1680
posted
I have had massages by men in the UK and Canary Islands so i don't have a problem with that. It was more how does that fit with Islam. Surely it must be haram?
BTW For once I find myself agreeing with Sonomod in Misr women for women.
newcomer Member # 1056
posted
Hi akshar!
Sorry to come into this discussion late. A Muslim man is not allowed to touch any woman he is not closely related to, i.e. the ones he cannot see without hijab, and even among the women he can touch, the only one he can see from the navel to the knee is his wife. Some scholars say that for the other women he cannot see the whole area from the elbow to below the knee, although there are some different opinions on this.
A Muslim male doctor/therapist may treat a female patient if it is absolutely necessary for him to do so for important health needs, and if there is no female doctor available who is competent in that specific speciality. He should only examine/treat the relevant areas of the body to the area the woman is complaining about, if it is necessary to do so. Also, he should not be alone with her during the consultation; she should either be accompanied by another female or a male relative.
So if it was absolutely necessary for a woman to have a massage for immediate health reasons, not just for pleasurable reasons, and there was no female masseuse available, under those rulings a man could treat her until a woman was found. But he certainly should not be giving massages to woman for pleasurable reasons, or looking at or touching parts of the body that aren’t absolutely necessary for urgent health needs. And Allah knows best.
akshar Member # 1680
posted
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Hi akshar!
Sorry to come into this discussion late. A Muslim man is not allowed to touch any woman he is not closely related to, i.e. the ones he cannot see without hijab, and even among the women he can touch, the only one he can see from the navel to the knee is his wife. Some scholars say that for the other women he cannot see the whole area from the elbow to below the knee, although there are some different opinions on this.
A Muslim male doctor/therapist may treat a female patient if it is absolutely necessary for him to do so for important health needs, and if there is no female doctor available who is competent in that specific speciality. He should only examine/treat the relevant areas of the body to the area the woman is complaining about, if it is necessary to do so. Also, he should not be alone with her during the consultation; she should either be accompanied by another female or a male relative.
So if it was absolutely necessary for a woman to have a massage for immediate health reasons, not just for pleasurable reasons, and there was no female masseuse available, under those rulings a man could treat her until a woman was found. But he certainly should not be giving massages to woman for pleasurable reasons, or looking at or touching parts of the body that aren’t absolutely necessary for urgent health needs. And Allah knows best.
I was so glad when I saw you had replied to the topic because your explainations are so easy to understand and not preachy. You have enlightened me a lot on these forums.
What you said was my understanding although not so much detail, which I am greatful for.
I knew it didn't make sense that he was a 'good' muslim and massaged people of the opposite sex. If he had been described as a 'good' man or 'good' Christian then it would have been reassuring but it was illogical to describe him as a 'good' Muslim when clearly the nature of his job conflicted with that.
So does anyone know of a female massure in Luxor
Jane
newcomer Member # 1056
posted
Glad to have been of assistance, but isn't that what a lot of us are here for anyway
meagain Member # 6767
posted
lol
newcomer Member # 1056
posted
Hi akshar!
Just remembered something else that I forgot to mention! In Islam, the only person who can see a woman’s body between the navel and the knee is her husband, that also includes other women. So even if the masseuse is a woman she should not look at this area of another woman’s body. From my understanding, if it was necessary for medical reasons for a woman to be massaged in this area of her body, it should be covered with a cloth and the massage done with the minimum amount of contact possible. This happens when a dead body is being washed for burial by other women. to show respect for the human body, so how much more necessary is this for a live human being!
The same applies to a man, the only person who can see between his navel and knee are his wives!
[This message has been edited by newcomer (edited 25 February 2005).]
Dalia Member # 1230
posted
quote:Originally posted by akshar: I knew it didn't make sense that he was a 'good' muslim and massaged people of the opposite sex. If he had been described as a 'good' man or 'good' Christian then it would have been reassuring but it was illogical to describe him as a 'good' Muslim when clearly the nature of his job conflicted with that.
I think we have to be careful with statements like that. Nobody - whether Muslim or not - has the right to pass judgement on whether someone else is a "good Muslim" or not.
akshar Member # 1680
posted
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Hi akshar!
Just remembered something else that I forgot to mention! In Islam, the only person who can see a woman’s body between the navel and the knee is her husband, that also includes other women. So even if the masseuse is a woman she should not look at this area of another woman’s body. From my understanding, if it was necessary for medical reasons for a woman to be massaged in this area of her body, it should be covered with a cloth and the massage done with the minimum amount of contact possible. This happens when a dead body is being washed for burial by other women. to show respect for the human body, so how much more necessary is this for a live human being!
The same applies to a man, the only person who can see between his navel and knee are his wives!
That is something I definately didn't know. Thank you again
Troubles101 Member # 4543
posted
quote:Originally posted by cancanfrench2005: MENTAL problem what if that muslim massuese is gay??? wouldn't that be ok?
why to you say that about muslim man .....???? I am surprised to hear that about a muslim man, why he cannot be christian or jew. right...??? it seems that you donot like muslims you bitch. hii egyptians guys wake up, see what is said about you here and try to stop this sluts
Not a big deal! masseur usually lose it and turn a gay.
posted 
The masseur did a wonderful job though and I was able to get back to work after over a week.
