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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ausar: [QB] ''Tell me exactly what civilisations in Africa in the 18th and 19th century the "Egyptologists" should have been able to compare too? '' Reading the works on Sir Flinders Petrie and Budge I noticed these two Egyptologist spent ample time comparing the civlizations of Egypt with other contemporary cultures like the Yoruba,Ashanti,and others in African. Of course,Petrie and others were using this as a diffusionist tool to try to postulate the outdated ''Dyanstic race theory'' Read the book ''Egypt in Africa'' by Theodore Clenko. ''Tell me what data they should have concluded on that it was a Black civilisation? Dont tell the images as they had no idea even how to traslate them then, and from what we have been told recently most of its wrong anyway!'' Well,Egypt was not technically totally a black civlization,but a good portion of Egyptians living in Upper Egypt are technically black by definitions used in America. I don't think that even Diop argued that Egypt was totally black,and even he aknowleadged some non-black people living in the Delta ie Lower Egypt,but a good portion of these people even had some ''black' admixture. Most like Sir Grafton Smith said that the closest relative of the ancient Egyptians were the Beja tribe in the Sudan,but despite their dark skin they were classified as ''dark whites'' So we have a syndrone were some people draw the lines between ''blackness'' and the ethnicity of the ancient Egyptians. Smith on the other hand had no problem proposing that modern Egyptians were the products of racial intermixture with ''negroes'' in his exact words. So the minds of many 19th and 20th century Egyptologist were clouded with their own bias instead of scholarly reserch. We can tell from the remain studied by various people that: 1.Badarians,Naqudans,and people of Nabta Playa have been classified as tropical African types with tropically adapted limb ration. These various cemetaries have been studied by Shomarka Keita and Larry Angel. Both have published their results in peer review anthropology journals. Dr. Keita also found that people in the Northern parts of Egypt were intermediates between Costal African type and Tropical African type. Keita calls this type Sudan-Saharo. 2. Dr. Randall MacIver,the same person who proved Great Zimbabwee was buyilt by Africans,pointed out that the earliest ceramic industry in Kharotum Sudan leads right up to the Badarian cemetaries in Middle Egypt. He admitted that more reserch into deeper into Africa would reveal the roots of Ancient Egypt. 3. The early Saharan culture often called the African Aquatic clearly has many elements that would later lead up to ancient Egyptian civlization. Once such instance is the pratice of mummifcation in 5700 B.C. by people in Fezzan Libya with an elaborate funeral rites. 4. The fact that a good portion of Upper Egyptians from Asyut to Aswan still have many African features that are desitinct. Not to mention this is where the majority of the Ancient Egyptian population was concentrated in Dyanstic times. The only other region being from Fayium to the opening of the Delta. Here is some aknowleadgement from an early Egyptologist like Gardnier who admitted that: The mid-twentieth Egyptologist Alan Gardiner, who was considered an authority on the ancient civilization of Kemet, gave the following report on the human remains of the pre-dynastic Badarians, Amratians, and Gerzeans: "These... were long-headed-dolicocephalic is the learned term-and below even medium stature, but Negroid features are often to be observed. Whatever may be said of the northerners, it is safe to describe the dwellers in Upper Egypt as of essentially African stock, a character always retained despite alien influences brought to bear on them from time to time." (pg. 392; Egypt of the Pharaohs 1966) ''know that many of the conclusions that these first Egytologists came to were wrong, but I find it amazing that I have heard when refering to people like Diop, and Obenga who got some things wrong beacuse of the information available at the time, that they were mearly limited by thier access to technology at the time, but the first Egyptologists were racist Eurocentrics dead on steeling the Egyptian Identity for thier own. '' This is true so this is why I feel that each scholar's material should be weighed on their evidence. I don't necessary agree with everything Diop or Obenga wrote but much of their material was good enough to challenge many perceptions of the ancient Egyptian soceity that deserving deserved to be so. Debate can only lead to constructive means of truth. No one person holds the absolute truth and sometimes their perception can cloud this truth. Egyptology is a fairly young science that has much growing to mature to a complete scholary status. In the future things will progress and get better. ''I aggree there was and still is a faction of whitening of history, as there is the opposite Africanist propoganda, but to not consider the data available at the time, the people that were encountered in Egypt at the time, Most African civilisations had declined or were well in declinbe when they arrived. The only thing they had to go by was the people they encountered in the most well known areas in Lower Egypt and the known civilisations of the world then!, which were not in Africa.'' Even with this said,many old scholars did look to Africa as a source of ancient Egypt. One of the Egyptologist happened to be Budge. Adolf Erman,one of James Henery Breasted's teacher's,contended there was no ''Differences between the Egyptians in Egypt and the natives of Lake Tshad'' Both these works were written well into the late 19th century. 17th century traveled like Count Voleny called the Egyptians in Lower Egypt mulattoes. He was a white Frenchman who traveled into Egypt on the rise of the Trans-Atlantic slavetrade. ''In all the reading i have done 90% of all Eurocentric propoganda comes from USA publications, by USA authors, the same goes for the Africanist. How many white Americans call themselves Europeans.'' Good point,but people like Comete Degobineau were Frenchmen. Degobineau is considered the father of most of this racialist material. I think most Africanist litterature is many times just reactionary to what scholars have put out during the 19th century. [This message has been edited by ausar (edited 26 January 2004).] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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