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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kem-Au: [QB] Horemheb, it seems we both seek the truth. At least we should be able to agree on that. Since you have only recently joined this forum, let's start from the beginning. I have no problems with you or anyone else for disagreeing with me. It normally helps me learn. I just ask that people support their opinions so I at least have something to work from. Let me first make it clear that I do not believe that race physically exists. So, as Wally has pointed out before, it is not a debatable topic. When I say that most AE's were black, what I'm essentially saying is that they are black by the Western Euro/American definiton. Or to rephrase, they are demontratably African in their features. Now on to the issue. You posted DNA studies earlier. I did not respond to the post because we have seen those studies before, and as Ausar stated, DNA samples are only as good as where they come from. If you took DNA samples from an American ghetto, you might find that most have African ancestry. Does that mean most Americans have African ancestry? Certainly not. Again I didn't touch on that point because of how many times we'd been over it. One point you made that I did want to touch on was that Ramses and Seti were not black. I'm aware that they are said to came from the delta, but I made a point some time ago that this does not mean that they were not black. [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/000272.html]http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/000272.html[/URL] Support for this argument was in that post, so I will not repeat it here. That leaves the post you made earlier: "What you are calling 'Eurocentric' is nothing more than a historical process. I think you have bought into the whole victim mentality." How so? Eurocentric simply means from a European perspective. There are other perspectives. And what's this whole victim mentality? Now all the effort put into the reponses people made have been narrowed down to this? Some people think the truth is important and seek to find it. None of us here have professed to know everything, but I like to think that a point is of judged on it's own merit, not just thrown into some victim mentality. "European whites have dominated the world since at least 1500 and to a large degree still do today. None of it has anything to do with some 'mean white nman' theory. There is no question that in many ways Euro-American whites have had a superior culture, at least since 1500." Where did you get this? There may be many people who agree with this, but that does not make it true. It sounds like you are using the fallacy of relevance, Appeal to Popularity (argumentum ad populum). That is not a valid argument. There were plenty of great civilizations circa 1500 in Africa (ie Mali,Ife and Benin), India (Mughal Empire), China (though like many African civilizations of the time, the Ming dynasty of the time was rocked by wars), etc. I don't know how you maintain that Euro-American whites had superior culture. I don't even know how you prove what superior culture is. As far as "mean white theory", I don't know what that is. If you're refering to Egyptology, again Ausar has pointed out a number of early Egyptologists who have distorted AE history (Gaston Maspero,James Henery Breasted, George Resiner,Sir Grafton Smith) I would add to that list Champolion the Younger, and where ethnicity is concerned even Zahi Hawass. Again this has been debated on this forum before. "There is no question that in many ways Euro-American whites have had a superior culture, at least since 1500. The North American Indians were swept aside because they encountered a superior culture and lost." This was probably the most disturbing part to me. But as every story has two side, could there be another reason as to the disappearance of so many American Indians? I will not comment further because this is not the place. But please read these: [URL=http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=4391]http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=4391[/URL] [URL=http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/History/First_Thanksgiving_LMTTM.html]http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/History/First_Thanksgiving_LMTTM.html[/URL] "Did Europeans have stronger military power" Sometimes yes, sometimes no. [URL=http://www.aglimmerofhope.org/archive/ethiopia/history.htm]http://www.aglimmerofhope.org/archive/ethiopia/history.htm[/URL] "In developing capitalism, which led to the Industrial revolution, they also had much more economic power. All of this led to great universities and solid social institutions." I won't take anything away from any culture. I just ask that history be viewed in it's proper context. I agree that the U.S. and Eurpe have great universities, though I don't see how capitalism ties into this. "Minorities prosper today only by buying into this Euro-American culture." I'm not even going to comment on this. "All this is nothing more than 'a period of history.' Like all others it will pass in time to yet another dominant culture." Agreed. "I do believe that many minorities have been taught, almost instinctly, that all their problems were created by the evil European/Ameroicans. Nothing could be further from the truth. The very fact that we are having this conversation in the first place proves that. Lets be historians, not victims." Again, I appreciate debate, not having all of my work so neatly summarized. That statement was nonsense. I don't mind discussing issue, but I would appreciate some background to support your comments, not simply your opinions. And if possible, let's please keep the focus on Egypt. Hotep. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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