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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wally: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by S.Mohammad: [b]And once again, Phoenicians were not black people and it is useless and senseless to use the line of Ham to prove blackness just as it is useless to use the line of Shem to prove non-blackness. Not all those characterized as Hamites(Phoenicians) speak so-called Hamitic languages. What makes one a Hamite or Semite is language, not a Biblical story. Whatever the Bible story stories say linguistically it doesn't add up to a Hamitic language family or race. Diop simply believed Hamite/Hamitic to be synonymous with black/Negro, not a distinct ethno-linguistic group. The Table of Nations is just what it is, a table of Nations, not races. We now know today that the Table of Nations does not always specifically correlate to races. [/b][/QUOTE] I took a liberty and transferred the topic as it had ventured far from "African languages" and also to help my brother Mohammad out. There is far too much confusion over something that should be very simple, if one takes the time to do the research: A) The so-called "Table of Nations" appears first in the book of Genesis, which is the first book of the Bible and also the first book of Moses. B) Moses, according to the biblical legend was a prince of Egypt. This means that he was a part of the privileged few in Ancient Egypt that received a formal education. (Yes, they had schools in Ancient Egypt, and they required an attendance of 20+ years!) Moses was able to write these books because he was able to both read and write. C) According to the Ancient Egyptian ethnographic system, there existed THREE known racial groups; Black, Semitic, and White. They didn't invent races, they delineated them. They did not document Sino-Asians, such as the Chinese or Japanese, for example,probably because they were unaware of their existence. There is a confusion here because when people view these ethnographic documents, they see four groups. This confusion is caused by the fact that few understand the Ancient Egyptian language and ideology. The Ancient Egyptians, while illustrating and documenting that they belonged to the Black race, considered themselves Rt_n n Rmt: Rt = Men _n = us, we n = above, over, etc., Rmt = Man, Mankind It literally means, "We men above Mankind" Any "Egyptologist" would confirm this fact. D) So to Moses, there were three great divisions of the human race. Thus, the legend of Moses has it that Noah had three sons. Why not six or just one? E) The sons of Noah, Ham, Shem, and Japheth represented the three racial groups and the nations which they engendered. ((Ham - (in both Egyptian and Hebrew) means hot; the etymology is Khem or burnt black, etc.)) Ham's nations (the Black nations) were Egypt, Kush, Put/Punt(east Africa) and Canaan(Palestine). And how did Canaan, a Black nation become a Semitic nation? It's called conquest. Which is exactly what occurred. And keep in mind that the Bible is replete with people predicting things long before it actually came to pass! It's called writing with the provision of hindsight: "And they (the sons of Judah upon entering Canaan) found fat pasture and good, and the land was wide, and quiet, and peaceable; for they of Ham had dwelt there of old." ( I Chronicles 4:40 Do you think perhaps that's why the Biblical legend places a curse on Canaan? The "sons of Judah" surely did conquer and colonize Canaan, the homeland of the Phoenicians... F) African history is both fascinating and also habit forming, because the more information you discover the more you want to dig further. Here's my recommended starter list: Abrams, Harry N. - A history of art in Africa, Harry N. Abrams, NY Note that there are both Bush(crude) and classical (Benin, Yoruba, Asante) African art forms. Breasted, James Henry - A history of Egypt: from the earliest times to the Persian conquest, Simon publications, TN Budge, E. A. Wallis, Sir - The book of the dead; the papyrus of Ani in the British museum, Dover, NY - Egyptian language: easy lessons in Egyptian hieroglyphics, Dover, NY - Egyptian hieroglyphic dictionary, Dover, NY Diop, Cheikh Anta - The African origin of civilization: myth or reality, Lawrence Hill, NY - Civilization or barbarism: an authentic anthropology, Lawrence Hill, NY Herodotus - The Histories,book 2, Oxford, NY Kebra Nagast (Ethiopian bible) - St. Martin's Press, NY Maspero, Gaston - History of Egypt, Chaldea, Syria, Babylonia, and Assyria. The Grolier Society UNESCO - General history of Africa, vol.2, University of California-Berkeley Volney, Constantin-Francois - Meditation on the revolutions of empires, ECA associates [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 05 June 2004).] [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 05 June 2004).] [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 05 June 2004).] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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