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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol: [QB] [QUOTE]I wasn't referencing the tales of sinhue as physical evidence.[/QUOTE]Frankly, that's not true, that's 'exactly' how you referenced it: [QUOTE]Originally posted by neo*geo: There is written evidence of lower and upper Egyptians being phenotypically different(as in, not having as many physical affinities with Nubians) as early as the Old Kingdom and physical evidence from pre-dynastic times...[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] Thought Writes: Please provide me with your sources or recant this false statement.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Neo writes: You can start with the "tales of Sinhue"[/QUOTE] Ok, how so? ? [QUOTE] The physical evidence is well documented that in pre-dynastic periods, lower Egyptians had a distinct culture and were not phenotypically homogeneous as early upper Egyptians were.[/QUOTE]Of course, but as you well know one of the reasons for that is the prescense of Aamu (Asiatics) in the delta. Your original comment was about Egyptian differences from Nubians. [QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol: [b] Your comment about Cleopatra being referred to as Kemut; is that based on something you can document? [/b][/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Can't document everything I know unfortuantely. There are a lot of books on ancient Egypt that are out of print now. [/QUOTE]If you read this in a book you would at least know the title of the book. [IMG]http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/frown.gif[/IMG] [QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol: [b] If not, it would appear that you are making a false argument about an issue you claim to have no opinion on. [IMG]http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/wink.gif[/IMG] [/b][/QUOTE] [QUOTE] I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing this time. While I haven't concluded one way or the other on the issue I will admit that I feel the evidence for "Kemet" meaning black people is not as strong as the more widely accepted translation.[/QUOTE]It doesn't mean black people. It is the word black as a noun adjective. There is no disputing the fact that the word black was used in reference to phenotype as no alternative translation has ever been offered for words such as Kemset, Pepi the Black, KemIsi or it's Greek derivitive the Black Madonna. The [wst] Egyptologists who speak to this specific issue (such as Yurco) will often grudgingly aknowledge it, when pressed. [QUOTE]I'm open to any evidence that will lower my degree of skepticism towards Wally/Diop's theory. [/QUOTE]It sounds lke you are arguing for the sake of arguing, or out of bias. * You are not addressing the evidence. * You seem to be attempting to provide counter evidence that does not actually exist. [QUOTE]I have studied the history of racism in the West and I have seen no examples of African people's calling themselves "blacks" before the British applied the term to West African immigrants in Europe[/QUOTE] That is a 'non sequitor' as black is a British (English) word that merely translates earlier references to dark skinned Africans ->including Negro, Moor, Sudan, Hamite, Ethiopian, Melas and Kem. Specific example:The Black Madonna of Europe, is derived from the African Goddess KemIsi (Black Mother) of Kemet. Are you saying the concept of the Black Madonna was somehow invented by the British to apply to West Africans? Are you saying that the Black Madonna does not derived from KemIsi? ? Are you saying that the Black Madonna is a reference to 'soil' and does not in any way reference the fact that she is 'black'? ? ? Are you denying that KemIsi constitutes and authentic African reference to Black as phenotype? ? ? ? [i]""Roman legions carried this figure of Black Isis holding the Black infant Horus all over Europe where shrines were established to her. So holy and venerate were these shrines that when Christianity invaded Europe, these figures of the Black Isis holding the Black Horus were not destroyed but turned into figures of the Black Madonna and Child. Today these are still the holiest shrines in Catholic Europe"...in all the Romish countries of Europe, in France, Italy, Germany, etc., the God Christ, as well as his mother, are described in their old pictures and statues to be black. The infant God in the arms of his black mother, his eyes and drapery white, is himself perfectly black."[/i] - The worship of the Virgin Mother - T.W. Doane, also see Gerald Massey: Egypt and the light of the World. Let's be clear on this: Kem Isis is an original "Egyptian" reference to Egyptians as phenotypical kemet - black people, that is translated as such by the [wst]. Neo: just because you study the history of European racism does not mean that Black history begins with Europe. [IMG]http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/rolleyes.gif[/IMG] Quite often, precisely the opposite is true. [This message has been edited by rasol (edited 12 December 2004).] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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