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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kem-Au: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by alTakruri: [b]If you have evidence that the Egyptians had control over the region between Edfu and Elephantine before the pre dynastic, or Wawat up to the 2nd cataract before Snefru of dynasty 4 and Sesostris III of dynasty 12 and finally Ahmose of dynasty 18, Id be interested. [/b][/QUOTE] The earliest I can say with any kind of certainty is that Egypt controlled lands beyond the 1st cataract was the 6th Dynasty. This info comes from Gadalla's Exiled Egyptians. I know his work should be taken with a grain of salt but I have no reason not to trust him on this one. He mentioned records that showed this to be an Egyptian colony around the time of the 6th Dynasty. So this doesn't necessarily conflict with what you're saying. One thing I'm having a problem with is the idea of the real Nubia (the land of gold), not being under the control of Egyptians. This area was always scarcely populated due to the lack of a water source until Ramses II found and underground stream there (this info comes from the discover channels web site). For this reason, I'm not sure we can say there was ever a time that the land of gold didn't belong to Egypt. It's just that there were never many people living there. I'm a little confused at this point about the land south of the first cataract. The Egyptians made no secret of where they came from, and I think that most of us on this topic agree that Egyptian civilization is of "Nubian" origin. So Lower Nubia is a part of Egypt before Lower Egypt is a part of Egypt. Egyptians bury their dead facing southwest, at least hinting that the heaven lies to the southwest. They put their determinant for a city on cities that are in what we consider Nubia. How is it that we can consider Nubia to be a separate civilization, but Lower Egypt to be a part of Egypt? The real question is how did the Egyptains see it? Egyptologists love reminding us that Egypt had conflicts with it's southern neighbors, but they rarely do us the service of naming these Nubians. I assume they're usually talking about Kush. But to my knowledge, Kushites don't show up until long after unification of Upper and Lower Egypt. Perhaps an answer to this question would help us. Do Egyptians recognize two different Ta-Seti's at the same time, or could it be the same Ta-Seti, but controlled by different groups at different times? [/QB][/QUOTE]
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