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High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males

Sanchez et al. (2005)
Euro J Hum Genet

"The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population -- closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya -- with predominant E3b1 cluster γ lineages that were introduced into the Somali population 4000-5000 years ago, and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa.

[ . . . ]

"East Africans are more related to Eurasians than to other African populations."

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Of course, this data accords perfectly with Tishkoff et al. 2000:

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"In general, populations cluster by geographic origin. The most distinct separation is between African and non-African populations. The northeastern-African -- that is, the Ethiopian and Somali -- populations are located centrally between sub-Saharan African and non-African populations."

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And with the craniometric data from Brace et al. 1993:

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And with the description of Somalis from Coon, 1939:

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"In the deserts and highlands of Ethiopia, Eritrea, and the Somalilands is found a concentration of several related Mediterranean types, mixed in varying degrees with negroes. To the west these partial whites border on Sudanese negroes; to the southwest the partially Hamitic tribes of Kenya and Uganda form an extension of the peripheral Mediterranean racial area. To the north, the Beja-Bisharin group of Hamitic-speaking nomads connect the East African Hamitic-speaking peoples with their wholly white Egyptian and Berber relatives of North Africa."

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And with the visibly hybrid phenotypes of Somali people:

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Conclusion: E3b is Caucasoid

Would it be better to say that E3b in Europe has become to be associated with European?
If I do a comparison with phenotype of Somali and European with both E3b and variation therof they will have different characteristics (intersubject/intrasubject variability) despite they sharing the same genotype. Obviously there are additional characteristics of climate, diet and gene 'plasticity'.

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the contradicting coondog says: This study demonstrates that Somalis are paternally unrelated to Sub-Saharan Africans...

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Then he says: ...and have very little Eurasian admixture...

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But then he says: ...Yet they're still found to be closely related to Eurasians...

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a fact that's attributed to their predominant East African component (i.e. E3b):

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How can Somalis be paternally unrelated to Sub-Saharan Africans if according to your last statement they have "predominant East African component (i.e. E3b)"??

Apparently your dumbass doesn't know or tries hard to deny the undeniable fact that East Africa is in Sub-Sahara, and that E3b is sister to E3a:

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E3a --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M2, [E3A]

E3b --- SRY10831.1, M42, M94, M139, M168, P9, M145, M213, Yap, SRY4064, M96, P29, P2, DYS391p, M35, [E3b]

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considering that the whole E clade [including E3(a & b)] originated in Africa!!

Speaking of which, how come you never answered Shirani's thread??

But getting back to your contradicting statements, you say that Somalis have very little Eurasian admixture, which is true, yet you ay they are closely related to Eurasians. And you attribute that to E3b!

As shown above E3b is of Sub-Saharan origin, which means those Eurasians who have it have Sub-Saharan African ancestry, not the other way around!!

And stop trying to distort Tishkoff by partially quoting her! She also said:

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Sub-Saharan African populations have high levels of haplotype diversity within and between populations, relative to non-Africans.

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This pattern of variation suggests that all non-Africans derive from a single common ancestral population which migrated out of Northeast Africa.

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All of this is irrelavent to E3b, since E3b is not an OOA haplotype anyway!! E3b originated from the PN2 transition that happened long after OOA.

Oh, and the high genetic diversity of Africans as well as some Northeast Africans' intermediacy with OOAs does NOT mean that there is little genetic relativity between them and other Africans.

Unlike Eurasia, where genetic drift and isolation occured more frequently and in longer periods, Africans have had constant genetic flow. Which is why, despite the high degree of variablity, Africans still share common clades like those of that are E3 derived.

OOAs were of course outside of the African continent and were thus left 'out of the loop' so to speak, until the Neolithic with the expansion of E3b and even later migrations that happened even more recently like the slave trade.

It has been explained to your stupid ass so many times that these craniometric features you call "caucasoid" are found from Africa to Papua New Guinea, from Europe to the Native Americas and everywhere in between.

If Watutsi from Central Africa and the Wodaabe and Fulani from West Africa were included in that map they would also group close to Europeans! So too would people from Papua.

Besides, skeletal structure is considered more accurate than craniometry when acessing populations because cranio-morphology is just so diverse even within a certain population, and Robins as well as other scientists say Somalis and other East Africans are *super-negroid* in terms of skeletal structure!

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And with the description of Somalis from Coon, 1939:

"In the deserts and highlands of Ethiopia, Eritrea, and the Somalilands is found a concentration of several related Mediterranean types, mixed in varying degrees with negroes. To the west these partial whites border on Sudanese negroes; to the southwest the partially Hamitic tribes of Kenya and Uganda form an extension of the peripheral Mediterranean racial area. To the north, the Beja-Bisharin group of Hamitic-speaking nomads connect the East African Hamitic-speaking peoples with their wholly white Egyptian and Berber relatives of North Africa."

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And with the visibly hybrid phenotypes of Somali people:

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Selective pictures won't save you! I can post pictures of Mestiza movie stars to show how Filipinos look like. But getting back to Somalis, you said it yourself that they have "very little Eurasian admixture." That was the ONLY statement you made that was totally true! Eurasian admixture exists among the Somalis in very little amounts but it exists nonetheless, which explains the features of some Somalis.

The first picture of the man in the white hat looks like a Benadir (recent Yemeni ancestry). Ironically Yemenis have nil E3b, which means Somalis of Yemeni ancestry would have less E3b than more pure types.

Sorry dumb canine

Erroneous is just a lame comedy act that ran out of material long ago.

Don't feed the troll.

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Originally posted by Djehuti:
How can Somalis be paternally unrelated to Sub-Saharan Africans if according to your last statement they have "predominant East African component (i.e. E3b)"??

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Because their East African component relates them to Eurasians and not to other Africans. Read the passages quoted from Sanchez. These are his three main points:

* Somalis are only ~5% Sub-Saharan African.

* Somalis are predominantly East African (E3b).

* East Africans are more Eurasian than African.

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Originally posted by yazid904:
If I do a comparison with phenotype of Somali and European with both E3b and variation therof they will have different characteristics

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Don't forget that Somalis' maternal ancestry is almost entirely Negroid. That explains their mixed appearance.

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Originally posted by Babbling Ape:
This thread is redundant and further refutation of Erroneous inanities over Sanchez 2005

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Don't feed it, and it will stop its desparate screechings.

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Originally posted by awale:
??

[This message has been edited by awale (edited 12 August 2005).]

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[This message has been edited by relaxx (edited 12 August 2005).]

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Originally posted by awale:
those are just only mogadishu somalis i posted from every part. the ones you posted look like jareers.

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The General Aideed is jareer? She's the one who looks jareer:
...somewhat...
Relaxx

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Originally posted by COBRA:
It think rosal is now terning ape

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You're back man, how are you?

Signed:
Garbage

...you cant hold your self from posting selective pictires of extremly dark somalies. who may i add are not mauch in between when comparing with the majoraty of somalies.

...studing from what you have been posting on this site, i thing you may have gruge against somalies as a whole.

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Originally posted by COBRA:
relaxx you seem to be quite ignorant...

...you cant hold your self from posting selective pictires of extremly dark somalies. who may i add are not mauch in between when comparing with the majoraty of somalies.

...studing from what you have been posting on this site, i thing you may have gruge against somalies as a whole.

[This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 12 August 2005).]

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Originally posted by COBRA:
somalies do not have a bantu admixtre mr Eveil.

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Originally posted by relaxx:
Let's get some dark Irish beer and forget about the past...
Relaxx

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dont dring because i am a muslim...but a good old somali cofe will do.

so....when did your misunderstanding of the somalies began....

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Originally posted by relaxx:
Dark doesn't mean bantu admixture...dark Somali means purer Somali...ask any elder...
Relaxx

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no stupid, somalies have always looked this way.

i thought you belived somalies were mixed with arabs and bantus??? why contradicr???

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Originally posted by awale:
COBRA, you seriously need to work on your English spelling and grammer.

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Thanks for the tip, much apriciated.

who was that??

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Originally posted by COBRA:
no stupid, somalies have always looked this way.

i thought you belived somalies were mixed with arabs and bantus??? why contradicr???

[This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 12 August 2005).]

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I never said that...where is the quote?Somalis look like Afars, Boranas, there are dark Somalis, light Somalis, and some mixed with Arabs, that's why some are lighter than the average African...but most of Somalis who mixed with Arabs kept the "Eastern African" features...
Relaxx

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Originally posted by COBRA:
So would you class this gentleman as a typical Somali? Or mixed with arab background.

[This message has been edited by COBRA (edited 12 August 2005).]

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He looks a little bit like an Oromo or a guy from Djibouti. Usually Somalis have smaller eyes...show me another Somali.
Relaxx

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Originally posted by relaxx:
He looks a little bit like an Oromo...show me another typical Somali.
Relaxx

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Originally posted by COBRA:
There is no point in Discussing with you on this very matter. You are just a trole who is bent on looking for a reaction.

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