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Kushites: “Nilo-Saharan” speakers vs. a “language isolate” speakers
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Supercar: [QB] [QUOTE]Its pure conjecture because he has no linguistic data from the period in question to support his conclusion. Without the linguistic evidence he is speculating about Sudanic population movements. We don't even know if Sudanic was spoken in the area or not.[/QUOTE]Do you or do you not agree about the climatic and historic implications Rilly mentioned. If not, why? [QUOTE] I have read the literature. I invite you to present on this list/forum the Napatan and Kushite/Nubian/Sudanic etc words that are found in the textual evidence from Napata and Meroe.[/QUOTE]Non-sequitur, since reference was made about “proto”- North east Sudanic/Nilo-Saharan language groups. Are you on the one hand, suggesting that Kushitic language was written in Egypt and later some other foreign language, prior to available indicators of when they adopted writing, but that on the other, it didn’t exist, since there is no textual evidence to show that the language itself existed prior to the adoption of writing? [QUOTE] Please list the Meroitic names that continue to be used by Cushitic, Sudanic etc., that date back to Meroitic/Napatan times.[/QUOTE]Please list the Meroitic names that continue to be used in any living population outside of the Nile Valley? In the meantime, from Rilly: for example names of persons and gods, can help towards clarifying the grammatical nature and the semantic field of the unknown words. Most of the time, all these elements are insufficient. [b]But in a few cases, a meaning can be suggested for new words and be confirmed in various inscriptions.[/b] Although very slow, this approach recently provided new translations. A set of thirtynine purely Meroitic basic words was finally produced, not including of course too specific words such as « prince » or « great priest », which are useless for comparative purpose. [QUOTE] Careful and painstaking analysis of contemporary languages spoken in Nubia today tells us nothing about the past. They only reflect contemporary sociolinguistic phenomena in Nubia. [/QUOTE]…in which case, contradictory to your claim that Kushites didn’t abandon their native language, but rather simply wrote them in foreign texts, that is just as dead and mysterious. [QUOTE] Moreover, if you lack any lexical items from the past to compare the contemporary cultural terms with, you can never prove that this or that lexical item existed 2000 -1500 years ago.[/QUOTE]You keep repeating this, notwithstanding what was posted earlier: The [b]most convincing similarities are with Eastern Sudanic[/b], and more specifically with the northern branch including Nubian, Nara, Taman and Nyima. The best result is obtained with Midob (a member of the Nubian group), thanks to Roland Werner's excellent description of this language. The scores of Taman, Nara and Nyima [b]could be higher if there were extensive lexical data available, but unfortunately, only short wordlists have so far been published.[/b] But at this stage of the work, two main obstacles were encountered. First, the distinction between the Northern and the Southern branches of Eastern Sudanic had to be firmly established. Obviously, the scores of some Southern languages like Surmic or Nilotic [b]in the lexicostatistical comparison with Meroitic are high.[/b] …yet you provided no material, on how Meroitic is a duplicate of the said foreign language, much less, provide lexical terms for that foreign language to compare with any known contemporary language. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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