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Kushites: “Nilo-Saharan” speakers vs. a “language isolate” speakers
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by kenndo: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Supercar: [QB] [QUOTE]Clyde Winters: [QUOTE] Rilly quote: [QUOTE]Kenndo: OF COURSE we now know that pre-kerma was form much early in 5000 b.c. and these were the same folks that formed the new city of kerma in 2400 b.c. I READ somewhere and heard the the nubian script from medieval times is coming back,or is here already. [/QUOTE]I gather that there are more recent findings that date the pre-Kerma complex further back into time. Rilly’s claim: According to the most recent archaeological work carried out by the University of Geneva, Kerma was founded around 2400 years BC and did not undergo any dramatic ethnic or cultural changes until its final stage. So the origin of Meroitic can now be placed very probably around this date or even a little earlier. Let’s pit this against M. Honegger et al.’s findings [not sure about dating for the following]: [i]Pre-Kerma settlement ([b]around 3000 cal. BC[/b])[/i] Other Pre-Kerma or A-Group sites with settlement structures have been discovered between the first and the third cataracts of the Nile valley. Unfortunately, these have yielded precious little information concerning architecture or spatial organisation, though they are often represented by storage pits (Arduan, Sai, Khor Daoud). It would seem that the latter developed during a relatively late phase of Nubian prehistory, as this type of structure is not known at sites predating the second half of the fourth millennium BC. The appearance of these generally numerous and grouped pits could be linked to the rising importance of agriculture in the economy and, in consequence, to increasingly permanent habitation sites. Indeed, the settlement of the Kerma region, with its numerous phases of rebuilding and ample storage areas, seems to point to a permanent occupation lasting over several decades. Compared to the Neolithic, where animal husbandry played a major role, [b]the Pre-Kerma and A-Group periods may have seen a progressive transformation, characterised by the increasing development of agriculture, even though animal husbandry still played an important role. This evolution of the subsistence economy was probably [i]one of the conditions necessary for the emergence of more complex societies[/i], such as the one present at Kerma during the [i]second half of the third millennium BC.[/i][/b] Bio-anthropological indicators from two perspectives: [b]Population continuity vs. discontinuity revisited: dental affinities among late Paleolithic through Christian-era Nubians.[/b] Irish JD. Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15895433&query_hl=1 Keita’s reaction: [b]Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships [/b] S.O.Y. Keita History In Africa 20 (1993) 129-54 Recently Irish (Joel D.) and Turner (1990) and Turner and Markowitz (1990) have suggested that the populations of Nubia and Egypt of the agricultural periods were not primarily descendents of the geographical populations of mesolithic/epipaleolithic times. Based on dental morphology, they postulate as almost total replacement of the native /African epipaleolithic and neolithic groups by populations or peoples from further north (Europe or the near east?) They take issue with the well-known post-pleistocene/hunting dental reduction and simplification hypothesis which postulate in situ microevolution driven by dietary change, with minimal gene flow (admixture). However, as is well known and accepted, rapid evolution can occur. Also, rapid change in northeast Africa might be specifically anticipated because of the [b]possibilities for punctuated microevolution (secondary to severe micro-selection and drift) in the early Holocene sahara,[/b] because of the [b]isolated communities[/b] and [b]cyclicial climatic changes[/b] there, and their possible subsequent human effects. The earliest southern predynastic culture, Badari, owes key elements to [b]post-dessication Saharan[/b] and also [b]perhaps "Nubian" immigration.[/b] [b]Biologically these people were essentially the **same.**[/b] It is also [b]possible that the dental traits could have been introduced from an external source[/b], **and increased** in [b]frequency[/b] primarily because of [b]natural selection[/b], either [b]for the trait or for growth pattern requiring less energy.[/b] [b]** There is no evidence for sudden or gradual mass migration of Europeans or Near Easterners into the valley**[/b], as the term 'replacement' would imply. [b]There is limb ratio and craniofacial morphological and metric **continuity** in Upper-Egypt-Nubia in a broad sense from the late paleolithic through dynastic periods, [i]although change[/i] occured.[/b] I AGREE,AND WHEN they do those studies it is limited and it depends on what time period and location and who doing it because they do not have all the facts or just plain dead incorrect. there was alot of admixture in lower nubia in very late ancient and late medieval upper nubia to a great extent so you will find this admixture there if you study this time period.southern nubia had much less admixture in late and modern times.upper and southern nubia in ancient times had no admixture from other (ethnic racial groups)or outside elements. there was no mass movements of other (ethnic racial )groups from europe or asia in the nile valley in ancient times,but there was movements from the outside(asia and europe) into the nile valley in egypt in greater numbers in late ancient times and medieval times,and in the sudan only in late medieval times in upper nubia and very limited movements in southern nubia in late very late medieval times and little bit more in early modern times but still very limited. 2. Upper Nubia's First Kingdom? The Pre-Kerma Culture The site of Kerma, about 10 miles (16.5 km) south of the Third Cataract, and about 350 miles (580 km) upstream (south) from Aswan, is known to have been that of the largest city in the Sudan during the period about 2000-1500 BC. Although we do not yet know its ancient name, Kerma was the probable capital of the first Nubian state to call itself Kush, and there is every reason to believe that this phase was the latest of a major town that had already existed here continuously for two or three thousand years. This isolated but highly fertile region of the Nile Valley, between Sai Island and the Fourth Cataract, was uniquely suited for human settlement, independent cultural evolution, and state formation. It was on a wide low-lying plain, which the Nile irrigated with multiple channels, creating many islands. In antiquity greater rainfall stimulated seasonal growth of grasses in the plains and enabled the residents to raise cattle on a grand scale. Whatever king could achieve political power over this district could control all river traffic between Egypt and the lands to the south - traffic from which he could collect tolls, receive gifts, and amass great wealth. In 1986 the expedition of the University of Geneva, Switzerland, under the direction of Dr. Charles Bonnet, was excavating at the ancient city site of Kerma, which dates to about 2500-1500 BC. Beneath the cemetery of this city, about 1.5 mi (2.7 km) east of the Nile, they found ruins of a second, older town, dating from about 3500-2700 BC. This town is now called the "Pre-Kerma settlement" and its culture the "Pre-Kerma." Mixed with these remains were traces of an even older town, which have yielded carbon dates stretching back to about 4800 BC. note the city of pre-kerma goes back to really 5000 b.c,some say 4800 b.c. and civilization began in southern nubia called early khartoum and it goes back to around 8000 b.c. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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