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who were the MOORS
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by kawashkar: [QB] > Your facts are wrong. First off, the confusion >comes about with the definition of Berber. I BELIEVE THAT YOURS FACTS ARE THE ONE WRONG. >Modern Berber is often times listed as a >MIXTURE of various FOREIGN entities with the >indigenous African peoples. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "INDIGENOUS"? THERE STARTS THE PROBLEMS. BERBERS ARE VERY ANCIENT AND THEY HAVE ADMIXTURE WITH PHOENICIANS AND ROMANS SINCE THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO. >ALL Berbers do NOT have the same mixtures and >do NOT all look the same. The coastal Berbers >are sometimes identified based on the ties that >they have to the foreigners that they have come >to mix with. For example, you chan have Franco->Berber, Arab-Berber and so on. But at the same >time, some like to OMIT these ethnic variations >of Berber and just call them all just plain >Berber. Secondly, there were, up until the last >few hundred years, MANY black Africans who >lived in North Africa and came to be lumped >under the term "berber" when the Arabs FIRST >invaded. SOME BLACKS HAVE COME TO NORTH AFRICA ALL THE TIME, AND ALSO SOME WHITES HAVE GONE THERE. BUT YOU DREAM IF YOU BELIEVE THE ORIGINAL BERBERS WERE NUBIANS OR BANTU WEST AFRICANS. THE "CAUCASIAN" PEOPLE OF NORTH AFRICA IS VERY ANCIENT AND NO REVISIONISM WILL CHANGE THAT. >HOWEVER, MOOR from its USE in Europe has ALWAYS >meant black person. THAT'S ABSOLUTE IGNORANCY. MOOR HAS ALWAYS MEAN IN SPAIN M-U-S-L-I-M, AND ONLY MUSLIM. THAT'S WHAT ALL PEOPLE KNOWS IN THERE. MAHOMMED WAS A MOOR, AND ANY FOLLOWER OF ALLAH IS A MOOR. NOTHING MORE THAN THAT. >It is only RECENTLY that Europeans and others >have started trying to make a more GENERAL >definition of Moor to include ANY Medeival >muslim in Spain. IS ONLY RECENTLY THAT AFROCENTRISM HAS CONVERTED THE MOORS IN BLACK SUBSAHARIAN AFRICANS. >Othello the Moor is NOT about a Muslim, it is >about a BLACK man, period. SHAKESPEAKE WAS AN IGNORANT. HE WAS BRIT AFTER ALL. PERIOD AND MORE PERIOD. >And this was WRITTEN in the ERA close to when >the MOORS ruled Spain. Showing how Europeans >identified MOOR with black. NO BLACK AFRICAN EVER RULED SPAIN. READ THE RECORDS. THE LAST "MOOR" OF SPAIN WAS BLOND BLUE EYED. LOL >And this is not the ONLY example of it. There >are MANY historical figures in Europe who are >labelled as MOORS even though they have NOTHING >to do with Islam. THAT'S TRUE FOR NORTHERN EUROPE BUT NOT FOR SPAIN. >Moor is originally based on the term for North >Africans given by Romans, Maures or Mauros, >both of which mean black and became the name >for the country Mauritania, which did indeed >have one of the DARKEST populations of Africans >in Africa. ANOTHER BIG AFROCENTRIC DRIVEN MISTAKE. MAURITANIA OF TODAY IS NOT THE MAURITANIA OF HISTORICAL TIMES. ANCIENT MAURITANIA WAS THE MAGREB. TODAY'S MAURITANIA WAS INVADED BY THE MOORS AND CONTROLLED BY THEM, LIKE MOST OF THE NORTHERN PART OF SUBSAHARIAN AFRICA THAT WAS CONTROLLED BY THE NORTH AFRICANS. >Note that NOW Mauritania is identified as ARAB, >not even BERBER, even though MOST of the >country is BLACK African. THEY ARE MUSLIM. BUT THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT THE HISTORICAL MOORS. >Many in North Africa try to "claim" Berber >identity in order to LEGITIMIZE their place in >North Africa. This is because the MUSLIM >invasions of North Africa have caused >WIDESPREAD disruptions of people and >populations. Islamic armies DESTROYED those >they crossed, INCLUDING the ORIGINAL Berbers, >and subsequently began converting and enslaving >many others. Add to the mix the many European >slaves bought to North Africa as well as the >Jewish expatriates from Spain and Portugal and >you have a MIX of ethnicity that probably has >LITTLE to do with the ORIGINAL Black African >population of North Africa. WRONG ONCE AGAIN. THAT'S WHAT AFROCENTRISM PRETENDS. NORTHERN AFRICA WAS ALWAYS A PLACE THAT RECEIVED MEDITERRANEAN IMMIGRANTS: SEMITES, PHOENICIANS, JEWS, ARABS, GREEKS, ROMANS, IBERIANS. AND ALSO IT WAS A REGION THAT SEND PEOPLES TO NORTHERN EUROPE. ONLY RECENTLY BLACK AFRICANS ARE GOING IN MASS UP NORTH. >There WAS no Morrocco until it was founded by >Africans and then TAKEN over by Arabs. WHICH "AFRICANS"? NORTH AFRICAN OR SUBSAHARIANS? >Many of the Northern African countries today >claim to be Arab, some DIRECTLY descended from >Mohammed and have NOTHING to do with Africa or >Africans, Berber or otherwise. THEREFORE, do >not be so quick to lump all Berbers together or >to automatically assume that Berbers are NOT >dark Africans or assume that THOSE spreading >islam into the rest of Africa from the North >are Berbers. YES, BUT YOU QUICKLY LUMP TOGETHER NORTH AFRICANS WITH BLACK SUBSAHARIANS. EH? HAVE YOU ASK THEM IF THEY WANT TO BE IN THE CLUB? >Most of these people are being spurred on by >Arabs. Africans may have adopted Islam as a >means of survival, but that does NOT change the >fact that Islam in North AFrica is a form of >ARAB colonialism. YES, BUT PEOPLE HAS THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT THEY ARE. THE MOORS ARE THE PEOPLE OF THE MAGREB SINCE HISTORICAL TIMES. THEY ARE NOT THE PEOPLE OF MAURITANIA (DON'T BE SILLY). THE MOORS ARE NOT PART OF THE HISTORY OF BLACK PEOPLE BUT THEY HAVE ITS OWN HISTORY. THAT IS VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND, ISN'T? KAWASHKAR [/QB][/QUOTE]
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