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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by alTakruri: [qb] The core component of Haritin Imazighen are in all probability the most direct descendents of the historic central and north Saharans written of by Greco-Latin authors, i.e.,[list] [*]Leukaethiopes [*]Melanogaetuli [*]Nigritae [*]Western Ethiopians (Hesperii) [*]Pharusii [*]Icthyophagi Aethiopes [*]etc., [/list] These were peoples living approximately 250 miles (or more) south of the littoral. If truly the indigenees, they may have been neolithic "Berber" speakers (after leaving the proto-language's Gharb Darfur birthplace to traverse the Sahara before reaching the Maghreb). I offer the below in relevance to the indigenous dark Moroccans nearer our times topic. It's from a correspondance with an Amazigh activist: [QUOTE] The matter of the Harratin has always been subject to controversy. While they were seen for a long time as late comers to the area, some of the most recent findings are suggesting the opposite. The "Blackness" of the Haratin has never been in contention. Even in early history of Morocco, the fact that a deputy of the Egyptian General began to enlist them as soldiers of an all Black Army created a huge debate among the Moroccans, who did not consider them of the same "social category" as the Sudanese, and protest arose because they were "free human beings" and not of the "slave" category susceptible to be rounded up for this Corps of Black slave-soldiers. It created a great stir among "Berbers." [/QUOTE]This was a precision to something the Amazigh activist had earlier wrote on a guarded forum: [QUOTE] Imazighen (Berbers) ... are related by language to the Tuaregs of the Sahara and sub-Sahara [.] Even the Black Harratine people of the northern Sahara have recently yielded DNA which makes them closer to Berbers of North Africa than to other neighboouring Black groups. This parentage is also verifiable through language. [/QUOTE]And this is basically true. The Haratine are a social group of formerly subjugated peoples. Since they were not all of one homogeneous ethnicity, the freed slaves marrying among each other created a new ethnicity. The bulk of this new ethnic group, "the One Fifth-ers", were the indigenous inhabitants of the Saharan Oases. Another Amazigh activist chided me for leaving out the former "owners" as part of the mix, which is correct because there was sex between the male "owners" and the subordinated females as well as the subordinated males with the "owners'" wives. When I wrote to this same Amazigh activist that I felt there was an ongoing NorthAfricentrist attempt to remove blacks from Tamazgha history as either an ancient population absorbed into the stock of MESHWESH originating Imazighen or as a minority Imazighen subtype the reply was: [QUOTE] I have asked before what ever happened to the black population of the area. In the literature, they are said to have been pushed south, but I maintain that inter-marriage or inter-breeding did occur. Now if DNA studies show that the black and white population in the north are related, I don't see why this is a problem. ...DNA studies are the most scientific proof we have, if it was conducted in an objective fashion. But I would like to see if the Amazigh also showed any non-Berber Haratine DNA. [/QUOTE]So you see there is a subconscious hesitancy to unequivocally classify Haritin as truly Amazigh by Amazigh activist who themselves often enough have an Iberian, Italian, or French mommy. The Haritin are 100% African yet these hybrid Africans who think of themselves as truly Amazigh doubt the Haritin Amazighity underneath it all. An amazing example of double think! It's eight years since the correspondance and I wonder what that particular Amazigh activist has made of the extensive mtDNA & NRY reports showing North African males to be overwhelmingly of East African origins and North African females to have substantial origins in east, northern-central and west Africa, even though the majority do indeed have "Eurasian" antecedents. [/qb][/QUOTE]It is funny how many dont realize the double talk of some Amazigh activists. On one hand they call the Haratin the indigenous people, who they say were pushed out by the Amazigh ancestors. But then they turn around and claim that the Amazigh the indigenous people. They claim that they are the pure descendants of the Caspian population, but yet again, this distinction would go to the Haratin wouldn't it? They want to claim white Amazigh culture as being the original basis of the culture of all Berbers, but in actuality much of the culture among the Magrebian Berbers originated in the East. The culture of the Berbers in Morocco and Algeria is derived from that of the Tuaregs and the original dwellers of the Sahara who are nomads. The prehistoric Sahara was the womb from which much African culture is derived, including Egypt, the Sahel, the Maghreb and places to the South of the Sahara. They are all linked through connections to populations in the Sahara. This link was continued through the nomadic ways of the desert dwellers in historic times. The culture and tradition of horse riding was first found along the Nile and the horse culture of North Africa spread from there as well as elsewhere. The colorful knitting and adornment of camels and tents and fabrics, along with jewlry styles can be found in from the Atlantic to East Africa among various nomadic African groups some of whom do not call themselves Berber. Ironically some of these groups are called Arabs. The earliest examples of weaving and knitting is found in Egypt. In fact the earliest examples of dyed fabrics are found in Egypt. Many of the so-called Moorish, Berber or Islamic inspired styles of dress can actually be traced back to Egypt and East Africa. Unfortunately, due to the destruction of many African kingdoms from East Africa to West Africa, the history and traditions of weaving and knitting in Africa have not been given their proper context. Henna painting is another African tradition, but hardly ever is it given any association with originating in Africa. The beads and jewelry worn by the Berbers in Morocco and Algeria are only a variation on that worn elsewhere. Many of these traditions can be traced to the Fulani and other nomadic groups in Africa. The amber bead tradition is ancient in Africa. http://www.farafina-tigne.com/fulani.html http://www.farafina-tigne.com/amber.html But a note of warning, much of Fulani history is still tinged with the racist claim that the original Fulani are descended from white invaders, like Semites, white Moroccan berbers or some other groups. We have discussed here how these people are indigenous black Africans and not derived from any white population. Likewise, any search on amber and beads will most likely not include Africa at all. Therefore the amber beads of the Fulani would be considered a recent tradition derived from the Mediterranean or elsewhere. This is another example of how Africans need to become experts in their own history and not allow foreigners to define them. A more up to date account of Fulani history: [QUOTE] The Fulani people, also called Fulbe (pl. Pullo) or Peul, are well known for the delicate decoration of utilitarian objects such as milk bowls that reflect their nomadic and pastoral lifestyle. The history of the Fulani in West Africa begins in the fifth century A.D. Islamized early on and traveling constantly, they did not develop a tradition of figural, sculpted art. The complex nature of art among this large and long-established group in West Africa is widely recognized but still understudied. A Long Itinerary Although the migrations of the Fulani cattle herders, as well as their physical appearance, have generated a variety of hypotheses about their origins outside the region, current studies demonstrate that Fulani culture belongs to the West African context. Their language, the Pular or Fufulde, onto which some pre-Berber components are grafted, is of the Niger-Congo group. The ancestors of the Fulani, among other groups, seem to have been pushed from the Sahara southward at the onset of its desertification around the third millennium B.C. Established in southern Mauritania at the beginning of the Christian era, Fulani people developed a strong presence in Futa Toro in Senegambia from the fifth to the eleventh century. From there, they migrated further east. Fulani people were among the first Africans to convert to Islam. Between the eighth and the fourteenth century, Fulbe-speaking people of Takrur had produced a class of Muslim clerics, the Torodbe, who would take on proselytizing activities across the entire western Sudan. Increasingly, the memory of their previous pastoral religion was lost, except in some sub-groups such as the Bororo or Wodaabe (i.e., "Isolated"), who remained animists and nomads. Between the eleventh and the seventeenth century, the Fulbe gradually extended their grazing territory from over much of the West African savanna up to Borno. They usually took no part in the political life of the surrounding entities, and were sometimes subjected to heavy taxes. To resist taxation and military conscription or acquire more grazing land, Fulani waged religious wars in the nineteenth century. From these jihads, or holy wars, Muslim theocracies emerged, for instance, the Sokoto caliphate that became, under the leadership of Usman dan Fodio (cUthman ibn Fudi), the largest single West African state of the nineteenth century. Over the centuries, Fulani migrations have interacted with all the other groups in western and central Sudan. Today, Fulani people live in nearly every country of the West African savanna, between Senegal and Cameroon. Traces of Fulani Culture in Tassili Examination of certain rock paintings in the Tassili-n-Ajjer suggests the presence of proto-Fulani cultural traits in the region by at least the fourth millennium B.C. Scholars specializing in Fulani culture believe that some of the imagery depicts rituals that are still practiced by contemporary Fulani people. At the Tin Tazarift site, for instance, historian Amadou Hampate Ba recognized a scene of the lotori ceremony, a celebration of the ox's aquatic origin. In a finger motif, Ba detected an allusion to the myth of the hand of the first Fulani herdsman, Kikala. [b]At Tin Felki, Ba recognized a hexagonal carnelian jewel as related to the Agades cross, a fertility charm still used by Fulani women.[/b] [/QUOTE] http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/fula/hd_fula_2.htm Some would also say that the Fulani are also descended from the dark skinned "Libyans" depicted on ancient Egyptian reliefs. I am also sure that Al-Takrur would know a little about this history of the Fulani ancestors, the earliest converts to Islam in Takrur. The first converts to Islam were peaceful nomads and did not get involved in politics until much later, when it had disastrous affects on West Africa (according to some). These Muslims of the Takrur and their nomadic kin are related to other African groups like the Tuareg and Berbers and are considered the original dwellers of the Sahara. This show the link between East and West Africa through the Sahara, as many scholars are beginning to say that the skulls of the Fulani seem to be related to those of East Africa and the Nile. But this is again an issue where Africans need to pick up their own history and understand the connections, especially the state of Africans in the Sahara, Sahel and West Africa prior to the advent of Islam (700A.D.). Most histories of West Africa begin with this period and obviously that is a biased view of Africa as not having any history until the appearance of "foreigners" or "foreign ideas". A good example of this is the bronzes of West Africa. The first histories of these bronzes dated them to the 1400s, (time of European discovery). More recent findings have pushed these dates back to at least 900 A.D. (which puts it into the Islamic period). Of course, they dont want to push it back further and the excuse will be that they have no corroboration, in other words they have no writings from the Islamic period to use as a basis of evidence...... However dating is hardly ever based on writings of foreigners anywhere else and it is more likely a desire to tie African traditions with foreigners and deny any African ingenuity. It is odd how Africans would get the lost wax technique from Muslims, when Muslims are not known for even practicing such a technique especially since they were not in the practice of making depictions of humans in artwork. Africans say they are even older, but of course many European historians would dispute this. What is not disputed is that this civilization was destroyed by the arrival of Europeans. Another example of how Europeans came not to bring civilization to Africa, but destroy it and its history. (Not to say that Africans were the first to invent the technique, but that it does not mean it was introduced by Muslims or anyone else. Seeing as this is a relatively isolated technique, it may be a case of local invention or earlier contacts with other people through trade much earlier than the arrival of Islam to Africa.) http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/wax/hd_wax.htm It is the fact that African history has been colonized and coopted by foreigners that all of these connections between African populations are not put into the proper context. Many traditions attributed to the Amazigh are actually just local variations of a more widespread African cultural tradition. It would be an interesting excercise to get a fuller understanding of the history of the following in Africa: henna painting knitting and weaving jewelry leatherwork steel and ironmaking rug making tent making architecture irrigation palm fiber weaving grass weaving I am almost sure that you will hardly get a full treatment of all of these traditions as they relate to East Africa and the Nile or even the Sahara. In fact, most often these techniques will be given an extra-African source, if they are mentioned at all. Clothing in East Africa is given a late origin, notwithstanding all the evidence of clothing from the Nilotic cultures. The same for mud brick/brick architecture, pottery and other forms of early technologies. http://www.brynmawr.edu/sandt/2006_january/silenced.html Note that the style of mud brick housing that is famous in parts of Morocco is likewise not a Moroccan tradition. The houses along the Nile from Egypt to Aswan all featured the same gardens, pools walk in wells and other features made famous in Morocco as part of the Moorish style. So suffice to say, there is nothing about Moroccan or Berber history that makes Berbers distinct and separate from other Africans. The traditions in the Magreb are only extensions of African traditions that are more easily observed because of the history of Morocco. Once again, this is where we need not follow the foreign model of history and anthropology in Africa and try and segment Africa and its history into pieces for the convenience of categorizing Africans based on meaningless labels and terms that dont show the true history and connectedness of African peoples. Nubian house: http://www.dolphinswims.co.uk/nubia/index.html Also note that the Ksar or fortified town is an ancient pattern of living that is found all over North Africa and the ancient Nile Valley. Ancient cities like Nekhen and Abydos were all examples of this fortified town pattern in ancient Africa. The same can be found among other African populations in West Africa, Central Africa and elsewhere. The only separation between the white Berbers and other Africans is the fact of Eurasian ancestry among many white Berber groups and the fact that in some extreme cases this Eurasian ancestry gives some Amazigh the desire to separate themselves from Africa and is a form of white supremacy. http://panf.info/upload/showthread.php?t=150&page=3 [/QB][/QUOTE]
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