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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Supercar: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Supercar: Stone is [i]well[/i], stone; and so, I'd like to know what you define "monumental" stone. What time frame is in question here; dynastic or predynastic? Because, you go onto say: [i]We dont really know much about the architecture of ancient buildings in the [b]predynastic[/b] for the same reason. [/i] [/QUOTE]Monumental stone architecture is really a reference to size, the size of the stones and/or the size of the resulting structure.[/QUOTE]So "monumental" simply refers to 'size' in the context that you placed it, and hence, immaterial to the point about the utilization of 'stone' in architecture transcending the Nile Valley? [QUOTE]Doug M: [b]In ancient Egypt the temples were built of large stones and were very large.[/b] The buildings at dar tichitt are not monumental, either in overall size or the materials used. The stones at dar tichitt were small enough to be moved by a single person by hand.[/QUOTE]How large? The only Egyptian structures which utilized 'large' stone blocks as far as I can recall, were the Pyramids at Giza, and perhaps the nearby colossal Sphinx sculpture. These structures are obviously unique to the Nile Valley, and hence, again of no relevance to the issue of stone architecture or buildings. [QUOTE]Doug M: Secondly, [b]if I remember correctly, the point I was making when I first made this argument a long time ago[/b], is that the Egyptians were rare among African cultures in that they both built in monumental stone and decorated the stone with scenes of everyday life, religious beliefs and important events that we can use now in understanding how they lived.[/QUOTE]Simply put, this is what sparked the debate and [i]what[/i] the argument centered on: [i][b]Originally posted by Doug M:[/b] "I believe that the only difference between Egypt and [b]the rest of Africa[/b] is [b]that they built in stone[/b] and left images of their religious practices and texts for us to study."[/i] To which I replied... [i][b]Originally posted by Supercar:[/b] What about the Great Zimbabwe, the stone walls of Jenne Jeno, the megaliths of the Sahara, the artistic impressions left by the Nok? I suppose I could go on with other examples. To understand the history of Africans, the peopling of the continent is a must know, not to mention linguistic reconstructions, and chronology of cultural processes such as those of economy or subsistence. The key to avoid making incorrect observations about Africans, is to thoroughly research Africa.[/i] …to be exacerbated by comments like this: [i][b]Originally posted by Doug M:[/b] Ok, if you want to be TECHNICAL, unlike MOST African cultures, the Egyptians built in stone and left lasting images of their religious ceremonies and processions for us to observe. Even though there were OTHER cultures in Africa that built in stone, NONE other than Egypt, carved images into stone of daily scenes of life and worship. [b]MOST African cultures DID NOT build in stone regardless.[/b] Or do you have evidence to the contrary? Please, come off your grandstand or whatever it is trying to correct me over such a SMALL issue. If it is that siginificant show me more than a HANDFUL of cultures in ancient Africa that built in stone like the Egyptians…[/i] Source discussion: http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=003189;p=1 [QUOTE]Doug M: The Egyptians left us temples of stone covered with scenes of all sorts. They had decorated tombs featuring scenes of everyday life and models of daily activity. [/QUOTE]Hardly unique to the Egyptians [including even in Africa], and immaterial to the issue of stone buildings. [QUOTE] Doug M: However, what I was saying then and what I am saying now is that the [b]Egyptians were but a part of a larger tradition that originated in Africa.[/b][/QUOTE]That point isn’t reflected in this: Doug M: [i]I believe that the only difference between Egypt and the rest of Africa is that they built in stone and left images of their religious practices and texts for us to study.[/i] [QUOTE]Doug M: These traditions stretch back into antiquity, but the difficulty now is in trying to piece together where they originated.[/QUOTE]As pointed out, the Nile Valley traditions drew from their ultimate East African origins, [i]in situ[/i] [including traditions emanating from what is now dubbed by Eurocentric scholarship as “Nubia”] and the eastern Sahara-Sahel regions. [QUOTE]Doug M: I believe that many of the sites on the Nile submerged under Lake Nasser would have given us some insight. I also beleive that there are some places in the sahara that have yet to be uncovered that would give us a better understanding as well. I also believe that the people of dar Tichitt were also connected with those of the Nile Valley through trade. So, I dont believe that Egypt is separate from the larger scope of African cultural tradition, but it is a [b]somewhat unique in that it built in stone[/b] and left so much information to us about how they lived, [b]whereas others did not[/b]. [/QUOTE]Was just a matter of time…before you reverted back to your strange claim about ‘stone building’ being unique to ancient Egypt, even as you have cited an example to the contrary. It flies in the face of logic. This is what got you in the hot seat in the earlier discussion, and which you’ve attempted to explain away here as you tried then, but apparently unsuccessfully. My earlier assessment that you may have broaden your perception, may need reexamination. [QUOTE]Doug M: Remember as well that there were other African people, who did not build in stone at all, but their lifestyles and worldviews were just as much reflected in Egyptian art as any other African group. [/QUOTE]Red herring. Immaterial to the fact that your point about ancient stone building being unique to Egypt is baseless. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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