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Anthropometric and genetic plots on Saharans and Sahelians
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mystery Solver: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug M: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mystery Solver: [QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol: Berber do not appear to have *anything* to do with Arabia genetically. [/QUOTE]Which is interesting in that, notwithstanding the correspondence with which they posit E3b and J lineages in North Africa, [i]after[/i] which E-M81 in North Africa is supposed to have arose in situ, Arredi et al. themselves note, in that same study in question: [i]The M35 lineage (see the phylogeny in fig. 1A for marker locations) is thought to have arisen in East Africa, on the basis of its high frequency and diversity there (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004), and to have given rise to M81 in North Africa. The TMRCA....E3b2 (2.8-8.2 KY) should thus bracket the spread of E3b2 in North Africa.....Thus, although Moroccan Y lineages were interpreted as having a predominantly Upper Paleolithic origin from East Africa (Bosch et al. 2001), according to our TMRCA estimates, no populations within the North African samples analyzed here have a substantial Paleolithic contribution.....In addition, genetic evidence shows that [b]E3b2 is rare in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2004), making the Arabs an unlikely source for this frequent North African lineage.[/b] [/i] - Arredi et al., A Predominantly Neolithic Origin for Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in North Africa Furthermore, they were aware of E-M81 chromosomes south of Egypt, as attested to this acknowledgement: [i]Second, just two haplogroups predominate within North Africa, together making up almost two-thirds of the male lineages: E3b2 and J* (42% and 20%, respectively). [b]E3b2 is rare outside North Africa[/b] (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004 and references therein), and is otherwise known only from Mali, Niger, and [b]Sudan to the immediate south[/b], and the Near East and Southern Europe at very low frequencies....[/i] ...and of course, ages of the E-M81 chromosomes in Sudan would be instructive. Not sure what specific location is in question here, by the mention of "Near East" above, or what it is supposedly based on, but I've yet to come duplication in any other study of the location of E-M81 chromosomes therein, and this even as Arredi et al. had just then noted its rarity outside of North Africa. Its small presence in Southern Europe is already understood from Tamazight/Berber migrations therein over the course of history. [[/QUOTE]E- M81 is not a language. Lineage is not a language. Language is not a lineage. Berber is a language. E-M81 is not a lineage. The two are NOT the same. E-M81 was spread by AFRICAN PEOPLE carrying a GENE not a LANGUAGE. The fact of E-M81 in certain areas outside of Africa is a reflection of POPULATION movements, not necessarily LANGUAGE movements. [/QUOTE]Non-sequitur. Who said they are the same thing? You are reading imaginery things. On the other hand, rather than disputing what hasn't been said, how about showing otherwise to what you are specifically citing. [/qb][/QUOTE]It seems you were saying that "Berbers" were responsible for bringing E-M81 to Europe, which is quite INCORRECT. E-M81 was carried to Europe by people and whe DONT know what language they spoke. All E-M81 carriers did not speak Berber as far as we know. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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