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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: [qb] [IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2lcoi78.jpg[/IMG] Another Lebou rendition photo with faded paint [IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2iqhgr5.jpg[/IMG] Paint faded from Ramses with "Libyans" [IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/v4xbb6.jpg[/IMG] "Philistine" with faded paint [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/2diixhj.jpg[/IMG] Notice the brown paint faded from this "Libyan's" back leg And why does the Phillistine below WITHOUT THE PAINT COMING OFF on the tomb of Medinet Habu show that they were actually a dark brown color. [IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/9a8yup.jpg[/IMG] [/qb][/QUOTE]I have been looking a long time for depictions of dark/black Libyans with traces of paint still left and to be honest this is the first time I've ever seen it, at least close-up! Now that I look at it, the facial profiles of these Lebou particularly in the nose remind me of Tuareg. I've heard many try to compare the noses to those of Fulani types like the Wodaabe but the high bridge and short tip are more like Tuareg, as is the wavy hair and fuller beards. Such facial features and hair also hark back to those Tjehenu depicted in Old Kingdom reliefs as well as depictions of early Delta peoples from proto-dynastic times including the Narmer Palette which might lend credence to the theory of [URL=http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006608]Delta Egyptians having Libyan ancestry[/URL]. Though one main difference between these New Kingdom Lebu and the Old Kingdom Tjhenu is in dress. From the few examples I've seen, the Tjehenu both males and females wore shirt skirts or loincloths and were topless except cross-bandaliers which they wore on their chests. In fact the long draped tunics of the Lebu remind me more of Canaanite/Levantine types than anything else. As for your claims on the Philistines, this reminds me that according to Hebrew writings there were two main groups of Philistines with the earlier group said to be descended from Casluhim which was offspring of Mizraim (Egypt) and that the Caphtorim (Cretans/Minoans) are also descended from Mizraim. It's probable that these people represent early sea-faring groups from Africa as opposed to the later Sea Peoples of Anatolia and Europe which included the later Philistines. Such is another topic I would like to discuss next time. [/qb][/QUOTE]I am not aware of any recent studies connecting the Lebou with Canaanites, but i have heard that some archeologists or are connecting them with the Israelites. I think your assesment of the Tuareg appearance of the Lebou of the Ramessid period and of the latter with Canaanites is very insightful and probably correct. It would fit in the Tuareg claim of Canaanite and Phoenician ancestry. Personally it is my belief that like the Philistines, the later dark-skinned Lebou the Ramesid period represent people of Canaanite origin. The former however may have settled in the Aegean like the Tjeker and come in with the fairer skinned Sea People. I don't know about two Philistine groups. I know that people say that these Philistines from Medinet Habu are attired in Aegean wear. I also know that the Hebrews make them descendants of the Keftiu. I don't identify Crete as the sole habitat of the Keftiu or Caphturim as you say. According to Near Eastern scholars the name Keftiu may have referred to the Aegean coasts in general. William Hallo and William Simpson for example wrote the name is "generally held to designate Crete and perhaps the Aegean coasts as well". They point out that the name Keftiu is associated with the name Kizzuwatna for the Cilician coast which was also called Keti by the Egyptians. The name is also supposed to be a variant of Katpatuka (Cappadocia) of Syria/Anatolia and the the name Kaphturim are associated with the Casluhet who settled in or near Pelusium near Egypt. I believe the Musuri or Masrah of the Syro-Arabian area were a remnant of those "black Syrians" from whom had come the Kasluhim and Kafturim (Kethu or Kizzuwat), Lebou or Lehabim and Philistines or Peleset. In Hebrew texts the last 4 came from the Mitzraim which was the name of a tribe in the Levant which should not be confused with the region called Egypt today. They were all descended from one people who settled Syria and other places in the Mediterranean and Aegean during the Hyksos period. i learned from the ANE forum a long time ago that the Musri were called Meluhha while the Arabians and Hebrews called them the Amlukh or Amalekites. As I mentioned previously these Qeti or Kethwat or Keftiu must be the Khethim of Josephus whom he claimed had colonized the Cyprus and the Mediterranean under Cethimus. The latter is most likely "Cathim the Amalekite" ruler of Arabian tradition. Thus, we find peoples named Khetim, Maketa, Ketama all over the ancient Mediterranean and Aegean, and north Africa whom are undoubtedly the "Ethiopians" who Greek tradition once said to have to the mountain of Atlas (Daris). After some time in control of Egypt these Kethim or Misraim must have been pushed westward. At some point in time one group of them must have intermingled with Sea People or some other white Mediterranean population. This is most probably why there as least one figure that is sometimes said to be either Hittite and Libyan. As as early as the Old Kingdom early peoples of the delta and Fayum were supposedly trading through Memphis with the Sinai and Levant, and in my mind these people were related. The neolithic peoples of the Levant (Tahun of Jordan, Jericho, Neolithic B in Palestine) and Fayum were connected probably biologically or "genetically" as well. These same peoples show links to Chatal Huyuk. It may be in this way that the semitic dialects first entered the Levant. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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