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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by dana marniche: [qb] .[/qb][/QUOTE]Identifying ancient peoples based on the names of one language is hard enough, but going through all these transliterations and other names that may or may not be related I find to be a mess. All I know that Israelite records say Philistim is descendant of Casluhim and both Casluhim and Caphtorim are sons of Mizraim. The name 'Casluhim' looks most like the Casluhet. And in my opinion Kapthorim looks most like Egyptian Keftiu. If this folk tradition is true, then these peoples have their origins in Egypt. [QUOTE][qb]I believe the Musuri or Masrah of the Syro-Arabian area were a remnant of those "black Syrians" from whom had come the Kasluhim and Kafturim (Kethu or Kizzuwat), Lebou or Lehabim and Philistines or Peleset. In Hebrew texts the last 4 came from the Mitzraim which was the name of a tribe in the Levant which should not be confused with the region called Egypt today. They were all descended from one people who settled Syria and other places in the Mediterranean and Aegean during the Hyksos period. i learned from the ANE forum a long time ago that the Musri were called Meluhha while the Arabians and Hebrews called them the Amlukh or Amalekites.[/qb][/QUOTE]If you identify Mizraim with a Levantine people instead of Egypt, this where I get confused since I'm so used to associating the name with Egypt. I take it then, that Biblical Cush in this case would be Arabian instead of the African Kush. Canaan is still Levantine, so what about 'Phut'? ...It's tempting, but can one possibly connect this 'Cethimus' to the Cadmus of Greek legends who supposedly founded the city-state of Thebes and introduced the alphabet to Greece? According to Greek lore Cadmus was a Phoenician prince and we know that Phoenicia or ancient Canaan was also known to the Greeks as 'Aethiopia'. Control of Egypt when? Are you identifying them with the Hyksos? [QUOTE][qb]As I mentioned previously these Qeti or Kethwat or Keftiu must be the Khethim of Josephus whom he claimed had colonized the Cyprus and the Mediterranean under Cethimus. The latter is most likely "Cathim the Amalekite" ruler of Arabian tradition. Thus, we find peoples named Khetim, Maketa, Ketama all over the ancient Mediterranean and Aegean, and north Africa whom are undoubtedly the "Ethiopians" who Greek tradition once said to have to the mountain of Atlas (Daris).[/qb][/QUOTE]I don't identify Khethim with Cadmus. The name Cadmusii or Cydamae in the Roman times, for example is used for the Berbers who setttled in Ghadames (ancient Cidamus) in Libya. The House of Cadmus mentioned by Pausanius, of course refers to Phoenicians who settled in the Mycenaean region of Thebes though. The name Kedem or Kadmon is of course listed with one of the tribes of Amalek and Midian. I believe Kedem were Amalekites like the descendants of Kethim whose name is probably related to the people called Cheth and Chitim, but Cathim and Kedem are two different words. They are both one of many Amalekite or "Phoenician" tribes that settled the Aegean and North Africa. Kedem is also called Kedmeh one of the "tribes of Ishmael". "Whenever Israel planted crops, Midian, Amalek, and Kedem came and damaged the crops" Judges 6:3 I have tried to point out in my page on the Hyksos that the peoples known as Hagar(Hajur) and Midian must have been Azdites and may have entered the Nile and Libya as suggested by Josephus after the dam broke in Marib Yemen the Meriba of Exodus. In North Africa many of the Berber names a pre-Islamic movement of reflect the movement of peoples from the southern Hejaz and Yemen who had moved into Syria and the north of Arabia. Among these peoples were the Naphish (or Nafusa, Nafzawa), the Jetur or Ithran (known as Bothran in later Arabic tradition) and hence the Botr ibn Berr of the Berbers. "Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. These were the sons of Ishmael" 1 Chronicles 1:31 The Cadymae (or Kedem), the Hadad or Chedad and Hadid, the Biblical Hagar, Hajur or Hajar)and Massa also written as Mash'ai, Mashek or Mashikha of the Azdites (Marib) are obviously connected to the names Ihaggaren or Hoggar, and Mashikh, Amazigh Imoshagh of indigenous Berbers. I can not overemphasize Kamal Salibi's book and the fact that his findings of the 100s of names for the Canaanites and Israelites in the Yemen and Asir Tehama region of southwest Arabia explain virtually all of the traditions of Africans of an Arabian origin or connection. I have also said before that almost all of the names of the Berbers are those of ancient Yemenites and the tribes of Hagar who in Biblical tradition is called Keturah. These groups later settled in the North and in the Trogodyte regions of Africa as Josephus said. It is also not me that says the Naphish gave their name to the Nafusa and Nafzawa. That is the tradition of that Berber people. Because Berbers with these names are dark in color people don't want to recognize who they truly are. "The Oases of Nafzawa and Wed Suef and Wed Regh and other Berbers of the Sus as “of very dark complexion” Guiseppi Sergi The Mediterranean Race: The Study of the origin of European peoples The Walter Scott Publishing Company 1901. [IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/33ug8k7.jpg[/IMG] Girl of Jebel Nafusa Of course, the tribe of Kenana is located in Hejaz as well as Jericho today. People write as if Canaanites and Israelites groups mentioned in the Bible and their names are lost and disappeared, but in reality most of these peoples and their names are found among dark-skinned people in Arabia today and among the Berbers in N. Africa. Thus, I would have to say that the later groups of Libyo-Berbers i.e., Nafusa and other Zenata, Sanhaja and Masmuda - must have come in part from the Levant and Yemen as they say they did. Some of them are those figured in the Ramses paintings. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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