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A few weeks ago I had to hand-write a paper for class comparing Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilization and arguing which was more influential on Western civilization. My paper's thesis was that Mesopotamia contributed more to the West, particularly in the area of religion (i.e. similarities between Zoroasterianism and and Christianity, Hammurabi's influence on Old Testament law, etc.). Since then, however, I have discovered quite a few Egyptian influences on Western culture, particularly writing (European scripts are descended from Phoenician which in turn came from Egyptic) and architecture (Greek columns bear a close resemblance to Egyptian ones), so I think I may have been wrong.
To those out there who know more about these two civilizations than I do: which had a greater impact on the West?
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Zoroastrianism is Persian and as far as I am aware has nothing to do with Mesopotamia, which means land between two rivers, namely the Tigris and Euphrates. And as many have pointed out on this board, it is a geographical term that is used ambiguously to refer to different civilizations and cultures on purpose, probably by those who like to think that civilization was begun by people with their own skin color.
lamin Member # 5777
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To Ty...Rex
And what about mathematics, science, astronomy(the 365 day calendar), medicine, dentistry and the principles of anatomical surgery? Check out the various Papyri Note that Alexandria was the scientific and technological centre of Greece while Athens focused on the arts.
Ebony Allen Member # 12771
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Is it really true that Egyptian writing influenced European writing? I've never heard that.
rasol Member # 4592
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^ Europe ultimately inherited writing from Africa and SouthWest Asia.
The term Western civilisation exists in part so that Europeans can pretend/credit for things not indigenous to Europe.
Ebony Allen Member # 12771
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That's interesting. I need to read more about that.
Mystery Solver Member # 9033
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus:
To those out there who know more about these two civilizations than I do: which had a greater impact on the West?
Rooted on shaky premise: "Egypt" and "Mesopotamia" are treated as though they respresent socio-complex units on equal terms. One denotes an ancient nation state [Egypt], and another is a simply a blanket term tossed around for a region [Mesopotamia] but treated as though it were a nation.
Doug M Member # 7650
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^^And if they were to define the region along the Nile in the same ambiguous way, as Nile Valley civilization, then there is no doubt which would be the older and origin of what we call civilization.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ Correct. Egypt, or Kemet as it was called by its inhabitants was a nation-state whereas 'Mesopotamia' was a geographical region situated between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers (Mesopotamia is greek for 'between the rivers'), which consists of various city-states and nations throughout early history. Therefore it is an unfair comparison. A more accurate comparison would be between Mesopotamia and the Nile Valley.
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen: Is it really true that Egyptian writing influenced European writing? I've never heard that.
The earliest known script in Europe, at least one which bears the most historical existence is Linear script A, which was the writing of the Minoans. From Linear A came Linear B which was the earliest script used by the Greeks. Linear script A itself is based on Phoenician which is utimately based on Egyptian (African) hieroglyphs.
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As usual you don't know what you're talking about. The Minoan script is a common script used by the Proto-Saharan people who founded the civilizations of the Indus Valley, Sumer , Crete and etc.
quote:The term Western civilisation exists in part so that Europeans can pretend/credit for things not indigenous to Europe.
You meant to say Europe north of Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece...otherwise, please elaborate...
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ The term 'Western' civilization is derived from the Western half of the Roman empire, during the early second centurey CE. It were the European nations that developed from this western region of Europe that eventually came to dominate Europe and grew to world powers. Since then, the scholars of these western European nations began to call their collective civilization 'Western' and went so far as to give that same classification to their ancient forebearers-- Rome and Greece, and even earlier civilizations whom they owe their roots-- Mesopotamia and even Egypt! Thus the term 'Western' civlization has been abused by scholars to cover a large area of disparate cultures throughout history that have contributed to the rise of Western Europeans. Which is why it is silly to call Greece (a southeastern European civilization) 'Western' let alone Mesopotamia or the Nile Valley.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: As usual you don't know what you're talking about. The Minoan script is a common script used by the Proto-Saharan people who founded the civilizations of the Indus Valley, Sumer , Crete and etc.
As usual, you think you know what you are talking about but don't.
Proto-Saharans have nothing to do with Minoans or even Sumer and the Indus. No valid linguist makes such a claim or acknowledges yours. You are the only one who speaks this nonsense.
rasol Member # 4592
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quote:Originally posted by AFRICA I:
quote:The term Western civilisation exists in part so that Europeans can pretend/credit for things not indigenous to Europe.
You meant to say Europe north of Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece...otherwise, please elaborate...
The term Western civilisation is used in it's most transgressive form: - To include Mesopotamia and Egypt!
There was actually a recent American documentary called "Western Civilisation" or some such, which featured some pompous British twit, standing in front of the Great Pyramids and talking about 'his ancestors' building it.
Western civilisation is a propaganda construct.
Remember: The apartheid Boers claimed that Southern Africa was western civilisation too, just like North Africa and Egypt to which they compared it.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ LOL @ the "pompous British twit" who said his ancestors built the Great Pyramids!
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