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The Origin of the Tutsi
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mystery Solver: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by AFRICA I: Well if one assume that the majority of West Africans are broad faced, one can deduct that the fact that E3b haplogroups are rare in West Africa compare to East Africans means that it is also rare among broad faced (and obviously among narrow faced West and Central Africans: Fulanis and Tutsis).[/QUOTE]That's all you've been doing: throwing out your personal "assumptions" that lack objective spine. [QUOTE]Originally posted by AFRICA I: Here are what Hierniaux measured among elongated Africans so called narrow faced Africans: [i] Tutsi of Rwanda: * Head length: 198 mm * Head breadth: 147 mm * Face height: 125 mm * Face breadth: 134 mm * Nose height: 56 mm * Nose breadth: 39 mm * Relative trunk length: 49.7 * Cephalic Index: 74.5 * Facial Index: 92.8 * Nasal Index: 69.5 Masai: * Stature: 173 cm * Head length: 194 mm * Head Breadth: 140 mm * Face Height: 121 mm * Face Breadth: 137 mm * Nose Height: 54 mm * Nose Breadth: 39 mm * Relative Trunk length: 47.7 * Cephalic Index: 72.8 * Facial Index: 89.0 * Nasal Index: 72.0 Galla(Oromo): * Stature: 171 cm * Head length: 190 mm * Head Breadth: 147 mm * Face Height: 122 mm * Face Breadth: 133 mm * Nose Height: 53 mm * Nose Breadth: 37 mm * Relative Trunk length: 50.3 * Cephalic Index: 77.6 * Facial Index: 91.5 * Nasal Index: 69.0 Sab Somali: * Stature: 173 cm * Head length: 194 mm * Head Breadth: 145 mm * Face Height: 119 mm * Face Breadth: 134 mm * Nose Height: 49 mm * Nose Breadth: 36 mm * Relative Trunk length: 49.7 * Cephalic Index: 74.7 * Facial Index: 88.5 * Nasal Index: 72.8 Warsingali Somali: * Stature: 168 cm * Head length: 192 mm * Head Breadth: 143 mm * Face Height: 123 mm * Face Breadth: 131 mm * Nose Height: 52 mm * Nose Breadth: 34 mm * Relative Trunk length: 50.7 * Cephalic Index: 74.5 * Facial Index: 94.1 * Nasal Index: 66.0[/i] I hope that can give you some indications. [/QUOTE]This clearly doesn't answer all the *specific* various questions and requests put before you, including the one pertaining to a single study that objectively detailes the connection between the facial structures of contributors of DNA samples and the markers identified. You cite this Hiernaux cranio-metric compilation, without elaboration of your understanding of the post, as some sort of support for your unsubstantiated posts. It brings to question, whether you understood the citation. Prior to that, you posted a Luis et al. map, which shows select samples from select countries. Not only do you ignore Hiernaux table detailing diversity amongst Africans, *including* West Africans, thereby contradicting you, but you also fail to see the contradiction in your citations from studies whose results were arrived at independently from one another, and the ends to which you were hoping to use them; the Luis et map shows that the Tutsi samples of that study, predominantly constituted of the E3a-marker bearing chromosomes, yet the separate study and independently derived results of the Hiernaux piece cited, shows that the nasal and cephalic indices [their 'modal' rep., I take it] of the Tutsi models examined were quite comparable to the Galla and the designated Somalis, whom you acknowledge as largely E3b bearing "elongated" and "so called narrow faced" Africans groups. ^Since apparently the markers don't tell us the cranio-metric specificities, all the more reason the following warrants evidential backed up: [i]Yes [b]based on existing studies[/b] it's [b]clear[/b] that [b]broad faced west African have much less E3b haplogroups compared to broad faced east africans[/b] like the Nilo-Saharans from Ethiopia or the East African Bantus from Kenya and Tanzania...[/i]- by Africa I ...and this: [i]Well if one assume that the majority of West Africans are broad faced...[/i] - by Africa I You've dodged this question several times already, but why would you "assume" that, when you've noted that this was "clear" from the unnamed "existing studies" that told you about the genetic matter in question? [QUOTE]Originally posted by AFRICA I: I meant to say that it is rare to find E3b haplogroups in West Africa(I was only thinking about non Berber groups). My point was to show that narrow faced Africans and broad faced Africans don't have necasserily the same genetic makeup. As an example Tutsi and Somali don't have much in common genetically, same thing with broad faced Ethiopian and broad faced West African. If you can prove it otherwise, please do so.[/QUOTE]Again, perspective: For instance, these two groups pretty much share the YAP+, M96, P2 and several other markers, barring *relative* frequencies of certain post-P2 UEP markers. On a side note, your elusive study(s) detailing both the genetic and the facial structures of "broad faced Ethiopian and broad faced West African" has not been forgotten. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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