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Much information has been shed on the Kingdom of Mali. Of the 3 medieval savannah Kingdoms, Mali is probably spoken about the most. Someone has posted an incredible article on Mali on wikipedia. I know this person, because he used to post on the Civilization 4 forums (the historical computer game where Mali was Empire featured in the game as a culture you could select to play).
Mali was larger than that of Western Europe, but Songhay was even LARGER! Consisting of land larger than the entire continent of Europe! Songhay was a mega Empire, which was indoubtedly one of the largest ever in African continently history. But much isn't known (or written) about Songhay.
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I'll allow this thread to stay here, since it will be overrun with trolls in the Ancient Egypt forum, but I'm adding "OT" to the beginning of the thread name.
Sundjata Member # 13096
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Yep, I remember first reading that article and had quite a bit of personal correspondence with the author as a consequence. Speaking of, he was the very person who directed me to the then underdeveloped wiki article on Songhay.
^^I did my own research and contributed to its progression, learning much in the process. For instance, beforehand, I wasn't aware of Songhai's elaborate system of criminal justice, which while based on Sharia law, has elements of a more recent form of common law that can be compared to the separation of powers structure in the United States. In that, the various vassal states remained autonomous in reference to their laws and customs as long as they didn't conflict with any of the central government's. Very similar to what is stated in the 10th amendment of the U.S. constitution. Neither did I know that they built prison facilities to deter people away from crime. They also had a nicely developed economic system for its day. Though it was based on caste/class, people were allowed to form craft guilds, basically resembling modern-day labor unions for the purpose of negotiating wages and quality of life. I've included much of this info into the webpage.
While Songhai is less emphasized, its history is just as rich as Mali's. The thing is though, that the empire was relatively short-lived and only a few have given testimony on it outside the walls of Timbuktu. Leo Africanus however, is a good source as well as the Tarikh al-Sudan (so I've heard via secondary sources....never been able to find a copy of the latter work)..
alTakruri Member # 10195
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If you'll post your Songhai findings to the thenilevalley Forum Index -> Sahel/Saharan Africa forum, I'll help you out with what you're talking about in the last sentence of your above post. Deal?
Interesting to see (in the map) that Songhay extended into what is today Nigeria. It seems to cover north-western Nigeria right down to Yoruba territory such as Kwara state. It certainly covers the whole of Sokoto state (where the Sokoto Caliphate resides). If the map is accurate.
Herukhuti Member # 11484
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quote: One of the more marginal Hausa states was that of Gobir. Poor and on the periphery of Hausaland, it was ruled by a remnant of the defunct Songhai empire. This rule was noted for its despotism towards both the Fulani and the Hausa peasants.
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: If you'll post your Songhai findings to the thenilevalley Forum Index -> Sahel/Saharan Africa forum, I'll help you out with what you're talking about in the last sentence of your above post. Deal?
I'd have done that a while ago but the last few times I tried to post I was restricted access and haven't logged in since. This problem has been resolved and I've made my most recent post on this topic today. The help would be appreciated. I did some more searching and found a digitized version in Arabic and an extended translation by Hunwick (though limited to 30 chapters) that I posted on that forum, but still not a COMPLETE translation in English.
alTakruri Member # 10195
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No, there's no complete English translation that I know about and what you refer to above is the very text I was going to mention that Jazel gave out here a few years ago.
But anyway thanks for posting to troll-proof TNV.
Sundjata Member # 13096
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^No problem.. Oh, and after some persistent searching and networking (coupled with my natural knack for resourcefulness) I actually found a copy of the book/ebook in question! Anyone need it, just shoot me a pm..
argyle104 Member # 14634
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This provides an interesting analytical refutation on what Djehuti has said previously about that area and those people.
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