posted
I think that it's about time that we start phasing out the term "Nubia" as a euphemism for "Negro"; "Ethiopian" ; ad nauseum -- This, of course, will not be easy. It took how long for 'coloreds' and 'negroes' to correctly identify ourselves as 'Africans: African-Americans' ?
Reasons to not use the term:
a) There is no region or people in the Mtau Ntr called "Nubians"; this was applied by the Romans to the gold mining region of Upper Egypt/Sudan, and comes from the Mtau Ntr "nub" for gold...
b) In the Mtau Ntr "Nubi;Nubiu" simply means 'gold miner(s)' or 'goldsmiths'...
c) Kush/Ekush (Kushi/Ekushi) was in what is now Upper Egypt/Sudan and is NOT "Nubia"...
d) Ethaosh are the contries on the frontier of Kemet...
e) Saba/Sheba (Meroe) is in the same region and it also is NOT "Nubia"...
f) The proper term for "Negroes"; "Ethiopians" would be "Kememu"...
..."kememu" is found in Budge's dictionary and is derived from the root word "kemem"; to be, or become black.
Keep in mind that the Mtau Ntr is not a dead language, only a suppressed one , relegated to the liturgy of the modern Coptic church. Without leaving Egypt, let's take a look at an example of its modern usage:
SAHIDIC COPTIC
Black
kame....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmt) kemi....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmt) kmme....black (Mtau Ntr: Kmmt) kmom....be, become black (Mtau Ntr: Kmm)
The "W" or "OU" placed at the end of a word means "ones" or plural; so in modern Coptic, Kmmou means "Black ones", or "Blacks" it's that simple. And this word has been used, as far as has been recorded, from the beginning of Ancient Egyptian civilization...
"Egyptologists" have been taught to use camouflaged terms such as 'Egypt' or 'Egyptians' rather than 'Black Nation - Km.t nw' or 'Blacks - kmemou' for obvious reasons...
mentu Member # 14537
posted
Correct.
There is no need to look for blacks in 'nubia' Egyptians called themselves literally blacks.
Finesse Member # 16950
posted
Hello im new here and I have a question.
What is the reason as to why the ancient egyptians call there nation black/Kemet?
I sorry but this still confuses me. were they reffering to the land or the people? and if they were talking about themselves still why? wwhen there are other nations who were black. why differentiate themselves like that
mentu Member # 14537
posted
quote:Originally posted by Finesse: Hello im new here and I have a question.
What is the reason as to why the ancient egyptians call there nation black/Kemet?
I sorry but this still confuses me. were they reffering to the land or the people? and if they were talking about themselves still why? wwhen there are other nations who were black. why differentiate themselves like that
Ancient egyptians called their nation kemet which means black people or black nation or community.There was no reference to land or soil because there is no determinitive for 'land' or 'soil' whenever kemet is written only people or community determinitives are always indicated
Wally Member # 2936
posted
quote:Originally posted by Finesse: Hello im new here and I have a question.
What is the reason as to why the ancient egyptians call there nation black/Kemet?
I sorry but this still confuses me. were they reffering to the land or the people? and if they were talking about themselves still why? wwhen there are other nations who were black. why differentiate themselves like that
Why should a common universal practice be confusing? This is a universal characteristic of human cultures - continuing to this day -Ethnic Exclusivity!:
a) The Ancient Egyptians also referred to themselves as 'Rome.t' which means 'the Men'/ 'the People' - they were aware that there were other nations of men/people on earth...
b) The 'Eskimo' consist of Inuit, Inupiat, Yupik, and Alutiit, each of which is a regional variant meaning “the people” or “the real people.”
c) The Oromo of Ethiopia; Oromo is derived from 'orma' - person to 'oromo' - people; hence 'the People'
d) Britain from a Celtic word, Pritani, "painted people/men"; and of course, the Brits weren't the only ones in the world who used body paint and tattoos...
e) In Swazi we have this expression "Iliso Lesizwe Esimnyama" or "Eye of the Black Nation"; Swaziland "-the Black Nation", floating in a sea of Black nations--
...still confused?
Ephestion Member # 12836
posted
Ax
In Greek mythology , Aegyptus , or properly Aígyptos in Greek ("supine goat"), was the king of Egypt (which took its name from his, according to folk etymology (Coptic), the son of Belus and father of fifty sons who were all but one murdered by the fifty daughters of Aegyptus' twin brother, Danaus.
The modern word Egypt is used as symbol of the Hellenised Egypt. No matter how many people write afrocentric books that stay in print for 6 months, the base of all modern civilisation including that of Egypts' is Hellenic. You only need to look at the abolishment of slaves, learning centers, libraries temples and so forth to undertand this especially in places like Egypt. Heck even the colonies of the French and English still model their systems on Hellenic Democracy. The term is not a racial issue as you might have realised from what im saying, its a geopolitical issue. Modern Ethiopia isn't even in the right spot on a modern map compared with ancient maps (ptolemy).
Nubia is Latin and misused reference to Aitheopes or Ethiopian. Its a general term to describe the people that once included the Kush or Cushi(Bible). Yes it does have a modern usage that includes racial undertones eg the Black Egyptians. But again its use historically like as in ancient Greek literature is to identofy the Kushite related tribes. Of course you can interpret things differently and that is what happens with the Greek texts.
Wally Member # 2936
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ephestion:
In Greek mythology , Aegyptus , or properly Aígyptos in Greek ("supine goat")...
Ah, it's Looney Tune Time!
the Great Hellenic myth; the era of Alexander the 'Great', who "When (he) saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer."
The myth of Greeks creating civilization over 4000 years after the building of the pyramids, after the creation of the arts and sciences in the Nile Valley...sure, I'll buy that bridge, how much 'ya want?
Meanwhile, back on earth...
-- Aigyptos is the Greek corruption of one of the names of Memphis (Membi, memfi...) 'Aikypto' or 'temple of Ptah's (Toh) essence.' The Kmemou had several names for each of their capitals...
--true, 'Nubia' is a latinization of 'Nubi' or 'goldsmith' and which came to be used by 'Egyptologists' to substitute for 'Ethaosh' or the lands situated on the southern borders of Keme.t (nu); instead of referring to the gold mining territory of Keme it subsequently came to substitute for Kush, Saba, Sheba, Yam, Irket...
Now, it's an ethnic group in Egypt/Sudan and also a contemporary euphemism for Black folk...
Again, since we're referring to words whose etymology is Mtau Ntr, the correct way to say Black folk, Blacks is "Kammau, Kmemou, Keme.t, Kemu.t, ...
Ebony Allen Member # 12771
posted
How is Ancient Egyptian civilization Hellenic? It was already thousands of years old when Greek civilization was just beginning. It has nothing to do with Afrocentrism. You're forgetting the Greeks went to Egypt to learn. If they hadn't they wouldn't have had their learning centers, temples, and libraries that they established in Egypt. The Greeks copied a lot of Egyptian medicines, magical practices, law and political system, their measuring system, and even their number system. Their Parthenon even has its roots in Egyptian architecture. So please don't get carried away with it.
Ephestion Member # 12836
posted
[q]Ah, it's Looney Tune Time![/q]
Αιγιπτος sounds closer to Ε Γυφτος.
Egiptos = E-Gifto
Gifto usually means a begger or gypsy. Some modern writers think that when the Greek ships sailed up the Nile lots of beggers came running after them looking for food and the Greeks would exclaim..."E-giftos". Eventually they called them all I-Giftoi or Egyptoi.
now if i had said that initially, then you could have ranted about your looney tunes.
Wally Member # 2936
posted PHOTOS OF UPPER EGYPTIANS AND ETHNIC NUBIANS...
...
Ephestion Member # 12836
posted
quote: How is Ancient Egyptian civilization Hellenic?
It was "Hellenistic" during the reign of the Ptolemies (~320BC-30BC). The army, government and offices of power became Greek. The common language became Greek but at the same time many were thought to be illiterate by modern writers.
The Greeks as I said started by learning from Egypt then introduced their own culture indirectly into Temple designs, Gods and Religion, Government systems, Coinage, Laws, Medicine, Art, Philosophy and the list goes on. It wasnt a total conversion from Egyptian to Greek it was an assimilation.
quote:It was already thousands of years old when Greek civilization was just beginning. It has nothing to do with Afrocentrism. You're forgetting the Greeks went to Egypt to learn. If they hadn't they wouldn't have had their learning centers, temples, and libraries that they established in Egypt. The Greeks copied a lot of Egyptian medicines, magical practices, law and political system, their measuring system, and even their number system. Their Parthenon even has its roots in Egyptian architecture. So please don't get carried away with it.
Greeks Hellenised those things you mention. The Septugint LXX was ordered to be written by Ptolemy. It is thought that non-Jews were becoming exposed to the Monotheistic faith because of such works. You could easily see Ptolemy as an Egyptian and thereby say that he was instrumental in spreading the word of God (indirectly). Or as a Greek doing the same thing but as a foreigner. It depends on the point of view. But assimilation worked both ways and in the end the Greeks documented and allowed future generations to expand on the initial knowledge base. We could go through and list the artifacts and be meticulous about a Helleno-Egyptian bibliography, but im sure you get the idea.
Nubian1984 Member # 16955
posted
I'm personally tired of the Egypt / Nubian separation myself.
zarahan Member # 15718
posted
quote:Originally posted by Wally: PHOTOS OF UPPER EGYPTIANS AND ETHNIC NUBIANS...
...
Nice pics. They illustrate the fallacy of those who want to make dark skin "foreign" in Egypt. This bogus approach fails because dark skin has alwways been part of the built-in indigenous makeup, and black and brown skin is of course part of Africa's makeup as well. -----------------------------------------------------------------
One the Nubians one recent books says they were indistinguishable from the Egytians in various eras as shown below.
“The ancient Egyptians referred to a region, located south of the third cataract the Nile River, in which Nubians dwelt as Kush.. Within such context, this phrase is not a racial slur. Throughout the history of ancient Egypt there were numerous, well documented instances that celebrate Nubian-Egyptian marriages. A study of these documents, particularly those dated to both the Egyptian New Kingdom (after 1550 B.C.E.) and to Dynasty XXV and early Dynasty XXVI (about 720-640 BCE), reveals that neither spouse nor any of the children of such unions suffered discrimination at the hands of the ancient Egyptians. Indeed such marriages were never an obstacle to social, economic, or political status, provided the individuals concerned conformed to generally accepted Egyptian social standards. Furthermore, at times, certain Nubian practices, such as tattooing for women, and the unisex fashion of wearing earrings, were wholeheartedly embraced by the ancient Egyptians." (Bianchi, 2004: p. 4)
'It is an extremely difficult task to attempt to describe the Nubians during the course of Egypt's New Kingdom, because their presence appears to have virtually evaporated from the archaeological record.. The result has been described as a wholesale Nubian assimilation into Egyptian society. This assimilation was so complete that it masked all Nubian ethnic identities insofar as archaeological remains are concerned beneath the impenetrable veneer of Egypt's material; culture.. In the Kushite Period, when Nubians ruled as Pharaohs in their own right, the material culture of Dynasty XXV (about 750-655 B.C.E.) was decidedly Egyptian in character.. Nubia's entire landscape up to the region of the Third Cataract was dotted with temples indistinguishable in style and decoration from contemporary temples erected in Egypt. The same observation obtains for the smaller number of typically Egyptian tombs in which these elite Nubian princes were interred. (Bianchi, 2004, p. 99-100)
- Robert Bianchi ( 2004). Daily Life of the Nubians. Greenwood Publishing Group
Quote: "the XIIth Dynasty (1991-1786 B.C.E.) originated from the Aswan region. As expected, strong Nubian features and dark coloring are seen in their sculpture and relief work. This dynasty ranks as among the greatest, whose fame far outlived its actual tenure on the throne. Especially interesting, it was a member of this dynasty- that decreed that no Nehsy (riverine Nubian of the principality of Kush), except such as came for trade or diplomatic reasons, should pass by the Egyptian fortress at the southern end of the Second Nile Cataract. Why would this royal family of Nubian ancestry ban other Nubians from coming into Egyptian territory? Because the Egyptian rulers of Nubian ancestry had become Egyptians culturally; as pharaohs, they exhibited typical Egyptian attitudes and adopted typical Egyptian policies."
- (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
"Among the foreigners, the Nubians were closest ethnically to the Egyptians. In the late predynastic period (c. 3700-3150 B.C.E.), the Nubians shared the same culture as the Egyptians and even evolved the same pharaonic political structure." - (F. J. Yurco, 'Were the ancient Egyptians black or white?', Biblical Archaeology Review (Vol 15, no. 5, 1989)
Someone has made a good point also that the "Nubians" were many tribes. A pharoah boasting of smiting "Nubians" on some tomb inscription may just be dealing with a particular tribe or subsection in a particular area. The whole picture has to be looked at in a balanced way. The ancient inscription below by Weni the Elder backs up the idea of multiple sections of different "Nubians"
"When his majesty took action against the Asiatic sand-dwellers, his majesty made an army of many tens of thousands from all of Upper Egypt: ...; from Lower Egypt: ...; and from Irtjet-Nubians, Medja-Nubians, Yam-Nubians, Wawat-Nubians, Kaau-Nubians; and from Tjemeh-land." --The Autobiography of Weni, Lichtheim M, Ancient Egyptian Literature Vol.1, p. 19
Brada-Anansi Member # 16371
posted
I stop using the term sometime ago..unless talking abou the Christian Kingdoms or Moderns who..self-identify as such.
You can compare and contrast the original article to the one below; which I have edited and refined for more accuracy...
Egyptian Names of pa Ethosh (the frontier, the interior)
All of the lands south and southeast of Egypt (sometimes also including the northeast) the Egyptians called, Tanoute, "God's Land." Within this great region, the Egyptians located the different countries and peoples of Ethosh. From the Old Kingdom onward, in addition to Ta-Seti, the Egyptians applied the name TaNahas as a general designation for Ethosh (n.b., nahas means, "suden;" Panahasi, "the sudeni" becomes a common personal name, developing into the Biblical name, Phineas). At the same time, Egyptians gave the name Wawat (Rebel) specifically to Lower Ethosh. This name derived from one of several Ethoshi chiefdoms which were located in this region during the late Old Kingdom. A generic designation of the desert nomads of Ethosh was the term Ontiu set , "Desert bowmen." The names which the Egyptians used to refer to the various parts of Ethosh and its different peoples usually changed depending upon the era and the particular ethnic group in a given area.
Elsewhere in the Old Kingdom, the names Irtjet , Zatju , and Kaau were used for particular people and areas of the country. While, previously, they were thought to be in Lower Ethosh, David O'Connor has recently made a strong case for locating them in Upper Ethosh. The Land of Yam , visited by Harkhuf, Governor of Abu (Elephant-ine), in the late 6th Dynasty, was apparently located around the Fifth or Sixth Cataracts. The Land of Punt (Pawon.t: the Existence; origination) was a country located east of Upper Ethosh and bordering on Kemwer ; the Great Black Sea (later the Red Sea ; i.e., extending from the highlands to the sea). Since the Old Kingdom, the Egyptians often enjoyed a productive relationship with an Ethoshi ethnic people from the land of the Matoi (also M'djaiu)(called the "Pan-Grave People" by archaeologists). As fierce warriors, they were incorporated as mercenaries into the Egyptian army as early as the 6th Dynasty. Later in the New Kingdom, they were employed as the police force in Egypt, and the word matoi became the ancient Egyptian term for "policeman."
From the Middle Kingdom onward, the Egyptians regularly used the name Kush to refer to the powerful independent kingdom based in Upper Ethosh, first at Kerma (until that was destroyed by the Egyptians in the sixteenth century BC), thereafter at Napata , then Saba (renamed Meroe). Kush is identified as the Land of Kush in the Holy Bible. Kush's political dependency was the territory of Sha'at (in the region of the Isle of Sai). Other names attested at this time (mostly in execration texts) are: Iryshek, Tua, Imana'a and Ruket . In the eastern mountains were Awshek and Webet- sepat .
In the early 18th Dynasty, the Egyptians also used the name Khentu-honnefer ("Founders of the Perfect Order") to refer to Kush, especially during the military campaigns of Ahmose and Tuthmosis I. It appears as a general designation of the area of Upper Ethosh between the Second and Fourth Cataracts, and designates the region for which the city of Kerma was the center or capital. The name Irem was applied in the 18th Dynasty to the people who apparently lived in the southern reach of the Dongola Bend (i.e., the old territory of Yam). Later in the dynasty, the name Karoy was applied to the vicinity of Napata.
In the Late Period and during the Kingdom of Saba , the name, Island of Saba , was given to the triangular stretch of land on the east bank of the Nile, south of the Fifth Cataract. This section, dominated by the city of Saba, was bordered on the north by the Atbara River, on the west by the Nile, and on the south by the Blue Nile. The Island of Saba was the heartland of Sabaean (aka Meroitic) civilization and the political and cultural center of the Kingdom of Saba from ca. 590 BC to AD 300.
Wally Member # 2936
posted
^^^^^^^
Neferet Member # 17109
posted
Saba also extended into Yemen?
Wally Member # 2936
posted
...that time again...
the lioness Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Finesse: Hello im new here and I have a question.
What is the reason as to why the ancient egyptians call there nation black/Kemet?
I sorry but this still confuses me. were they reffering to the land or the people? and if they were talking about themselves still why? wwhen there are other nations who were black. why differentiate themselves like that
quote:Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: I am writing a book on that very question and contrary to popular belief, the word km.t in all African language families can mean "land, earth, community, farm and place." It is where the English word "home" derives from (k>h). Full argument will be ready this summer.
the lioness Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Nubian1984 : I'm personally tired of the Egypt / Nubian separation myself.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: [QB] I think that it's about time that we start phasing out the term "Nubia" Reasons to not use the term:
a) There is no region or people in the Mtau Ntr called "Nubians"; this was applied by the Romans to the gold mining region of Upper Egypt/Sudan, and comes from the Mtau Ntr "nub" for gold...
time for a name change?
the lioness Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Wally: The proper term for "Negroes"; "Ethiopians" would be "Kememu"...
..."kememu" is found in Budge's dictionary and is derived from the root word "kemem"; to be, or become black.
Wallis Budge's Egyptian Hieroglyphics Dictionary. Part 1
nuhes
n.
negro
.
Wally Member # 2936
posted
quote:Originally posted by Finesse: Hello im new here and I have a question.
What is the reason as to why the ancient egyptians call there nation black/Kemet?
I sorry but this still confuses me. were they reffering to the land or the people? and if they were talking about themselves still why? wwhen there are other nations who were black. why differentiate themselves like that
Why should a common universal practice be confusing? This is a universal characteristic of human cultures - continuing to this day -Ethnic Exclusivity!:
a) The Ancient Egyptians also referred to themselves as 'Rome.t' which means 'the Men'/ 'the People' - they were aware that there were other nations of men/people on earth...
b) The 'Eskimo' consist of Inuit, Inupiat, Yupik, and Alutiit, each of which is a regional variant meaning “the people” or “the real people.”
c) The Oromo of Ethiopia; Oromo is derived from 'orma' - person to 'oromo' - people; hence 'the People'
d) 'Britain' is derived from a Celtic word, Pritani, "painted people/men"; and of course, the Brits weren't the only ones in the world who used body paint and tattoos...
e) In Swazi we have this expression "Iliso Lesizwe Esimnyama" or "Eye of the Black Nation"; Swaziland; imagine, "the Black Nation", floating in a sea of Black nations--
...still confused?
▬▬▬
Nahasi = 'Sudani man' / Nahasu = 'Sudani peoples'
Budge's additional translation of 'Nahas' as 'Negro' is specious and was part of the ideology of early Western Egyptology - still plays well with those who cannot accept the reality of Black Ancient Egyptian Civilization; much like the loons who cannot accept the reality that this country elected a Black president...
the lioness Member # 17353
posted
quote:Originally posted by Wally: The proper term for "Negroes"; "Ethiopians" would be "Kememu"...
..."kememu" is found in Budge's dictionary and is derived from the root word "kemem"; to be, or become black.
quote:Originally posted by Wally: 'Negro' is specious and was part of the ideology of early Western Egyptology
Djehuti Member # 6698
posted
quote:Originally posted by mentu:
quote:Originally posted by Finesse: Hello im new here and I have a question.
What is the reason as to why the ancient egyptians call there nation black/Kemet?
I sorry but this still confuses me. were they reffering to the land or the people? and if they were talking about themselves still why? wwhen there are other nations who were black. why differentiate themselves like that
Ancient egyptians called their nation kemet which means black people or black nation or community.There was no reference to land or soil because there is no determinitive for 'land' or 'soil' whenever kemet is written only people or community determinitives are always indicated
Correct. And just to further add, the reason why they chose the color black is because black in ancient Egypt like in many African societies was considered a a sacred color that symbolized the power of fertility and regeneration of life and not necessarily skin color. Many African cultures associate positive things with the color black and negative things with the color red which is associated with sterility and chaos. It was not racial per-say but a deep abstract symbolism. This is very much in contrast to Western Euro way of thinking where black connotes negative or bad things like death, ugliness, etc.
posted 
