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Manilius Quote, 1st century AD (Roman)
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: you resort to emotional ad-hominem attacks on me. Just because support Takruri's [i]valid[/i] assertions unlike yours does not make me a "cheerleader". ;) [/QB][/QUOTE]When you mearly copy somebody else's post and say "right on" without contributing new information does in fact make you a cheerleader and doesn't add to the dialog. You calling my comments ad hominem? That's laughable, that's like the pot calling the kettle black. Because he Manilius group them, alTakruri groups them source: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/manilius4.html [i]Idcirco in varias leges variasque figuras dispositum genus est hominum, proprioque colore formantur gentes, sociataque iura per artus materiamque parem privato foedere signant. flava per ingentis surgit Germania partus, 715 Gallia vicino minus est infecta rubore, asperior solidos Hispania contrahit artus. Martia Romanis urbis pater induit ora Gradivumque Venus miscens bene temperat artus, perque coloratas subtilis Graecia gentes 720 gymnasium praefert vultu fortisque palaestras, et Syriam produnt torti per tempora crines. Aethiopes maculant orbem tenebrisque figurant perfusas hominum gentes; minus India tostos progenerat; 725a tellusque natans Aegyptia Nilo 726b lenius irriguis infuscat corpora campis iam propior 726a mediumque facit moderata tenorem. 725b Phoebus harenosis Afrorum pulvere terris 728 exsiccat populos, et Mauretania nomen oris habet titulumque suo fert ipsa colore. adde sonos totidem vocum, totidem insere linguas et mores pro sorte paris ritusque locorum; adde genus proprium simili sub semine frugum et Cererem varia redeuntem messe per urbes nec paribus siliquas referentem viribus omnis, 735 nec te, Bacche, pari donantem munere terras atque alias aliis fundentem collibus uvas, cinnama nec totis passim nascentia campis; diversas pecudum facies propriasque ferarum et duplici clausos elephantas carcere terrae. 740 quot partes orbis, totidem sub partibus orbes, ut certis discripta nitent regionibus astra perfunduntque suo subiectas aere gentes. Laniger in medio sortitus sidera mundo, <lance ubi sol aequa pensat noctemque diemque> 744a Cancrum inter gelidumque <Caprum> per tempora veris, asserit in vires pontum quem vicerat ipse, virgine delapsa cum fratrem ad litora vexit et minui deflevit onus dorsumque levari. illum etiam venerata colit vicina Propontis et Syriae gentes et laxo Persis amictu 750 vestibus ipsa suis haerens Nilusque tumescens in Cancrum et tellus Aegypti iussa natare. Taurus habet Scythiae montes Asiamque potentem et mollis Arabas, silvarum ditia regna. Euxinus Scythicos pontus sinuatus in arcus 755 sub Geminis te, Phoebe, colit; vos Thracia, fratres, ultimus et sola vos tranans colit Indica Ganges. ardent Aethiopes Cancro, cui plurimus ignis: hoc color ipse docet. Phrygia, Nemeaee, potiris Idaeae matris famulus regnoque feroci 760 Cappadocum Armeniaeque iugis; Bithynia dives te colit et Macetum tellus, quae vicerat orbem. Virgine sub casta felix terraque marique est Rhodos, hospitium recturi principis orbem, tumque domus vere Solis, cui tota sacrata est, 765 cum caperet lumen magni sub Caesare mundi; Ioniae quoque sunt urbes et Dorica rura, Arcades antiqui celebrataque Caria fama. quod potius colat Italiam, si seligat, astrum quam quod cuncta regit, quod rerum pondera novit, 770 designat summas et iniquum separat aequo, tempora quo pendent, coeunt quo noxque diesque? Hesperiam sua Libra tenet, qua condita Roma orbis et imperium retinet discrimina rerum, lancibus et positas gentes tollitque premitque, 775 qua genitus Caesar melius nunc condidit urbem et propriis frenat pendentem nutibus orbem. inferius victae sidus Carthaginis arces et Libyam Aegyptique latus donataque rura Cyrenes lacrimis radicis Scorpios acris 780 eligit, Italiaeque tamen respectat ad undas Sardiniamque tenet fusasque per aequora terras. Cnosia Centauro tellus circumdata ponto paret, et in geminum Minois filius astrum ipse venit geminus. celeris hinc Creta sagittas 785 asserit intentosque imitatur sideris arcus. insula Trinacriae fluitantem ad iura sororem subsequitur Triviae sub eodem condita signo, proximaque Italiae tenui divisa profundo ora paris sequitur leges nec sidere rupta est. 790 tu, Capricorne, regis quidquid sub sole cadente est positum gelidamque Helicen quod tangit ab illo, Hispanas gentes et quot fert Gallia dives; teque feris dignam tantum, Germania, matrem [/i] ________________________________________________________ literal translation of above: For this reason, various laws in the various figures disposed is a genus of men, the color of proprioque nations are formed, sociataque administer law in the limbs an equal mark the matter private treaty. Germany rises by a huge golden birth, 715 France is less than the neighboring infected shame, they Spain, contracts shillings more severe limbs. Mars, the father of the city put on the mouths of the Romans Venus is well-Gradivus miscens tempers the limbs, Greece is subtle and colored by the 720 nations prefers strong wrestling with her face to a place of exercise, and Syria by time, they betray a piece of hair. Ethiopians stain the world figure tenebrisque endowed with the nations of men less roasted India engendered; 725a FISH 726b tellusque the Egyptian Nile more gently darkened by a watered the fields of the bodies we now draw near 726a does moderate the tenor of the middle. 725b Phoebus African and sandy dust of the earth 728 drieth up the people, and the name of Mauritania titulumque bears his mouth has the very color. add as many sounds of words, the same number of group languages for equal ritusque lot of places and manners; add proper genus under the seed of the fruits of a similar harvest, and returning through the cities of Ceres various all things being equal, nor the strength of husks back, 735 nor you, Bacchus, for the same office forgiving lands they pour out to others, of other hills, grapes, nor cinnamon whole produce of the fields in all directions; propriasque different faces of wild beasts of cattle shut up in prison, double the elephants and the earth. 740 how many parts of the world, under the same number of parts of the worlds, apportioned to separate the stars shine, certain regions perfunduntque subject to air their nations. RAM has placed him in the midst of the stars of the world, <lance weighs a night where the sun is equal diemque> 744a Cancer <Caprum> by time, between the cold truths, asserts that the sea into the forces which he had conquered, Virgin coming down to the shore with his brother vexit and decrease the burden of deflevit dorsumque raised up. venerated him also cultivates the neighboring Propontis 750 nations, and loose clothing, Persians, and Syria garments, clinging fast to its Nilusque tumescens Cancer of Egypt in the commands to swim and relax. Taurus has a powerful Asiamque the mountains of Scythia Arabians and soft, a wealthy kingdoms of the woods. Scythian Sea sinuatus the sea in a bow 755 Gemini under you, Phoebus, worships you Thrace, brethren, the last and only you Tell tranans worships the Ganges. Cancer burn the Ethiopians, to whom most of fire: the color of this he teaches. Phrygia, Nemeaee, rather The servant of the mother's fierce Idaean regnoque 760 Cappadocia Armeniaeque the ridges; Bithynia rich Macetum worships you and region, which had conquered the world. Happy under the chaste Virgin by land and sea Rhodes is, the guest of the prince who was to rule the world, and then truly the house of the Sun, to whom is consecrated the whole, 765 when they caught the light of the great under Caesar of the world; Ionia also are the Dorian cities and fields, Arcadians ancient Caria celebrataque reputation. rather he cultivates that Italy, if choose, the star than that all the king's, knows that the weights of things, 770 separates points out the palms of her unjust and equitable, which depend on the times, which together night and day? Hesperia Libra holds his own, by which the foundation of Rome the world, and the government retains the differences of things, and scales have been set down tollitque premitque nations, 775 begotten Caesar founded the city which is now better their own bridles hanging on the gestures and the world. star of the towers of conquered Carthage lower Libya and the side Aegyptique donataque fields Alice in Wonderland: 780 acres of Cyrene, tears of the root chooses and Italy, however, look to the waves Fusasque seas and Sardinia holds lands. Cnosia Centaur region, surrounded by sea prepare, and in a double star of the younger son he comes to double. 785 Crete, hence the swift arrows attentively the star asserts that imitates the bow. rights flowing to the sister island of Sicily followed by Trivia founded under the same sign, Italy was divided, and nearest the depth of a thin star is not broken, it follows the laws of the mouths of equal. 790 you, Capricorn, the king of whatever falls under the sun gelidamque Helicen touches that lies from him, France bears the Spaniards, and how many rich nations; you worthy of only the wild beasts, Germany, the mother of ___________________________________________________________ to say that one list of complexions is "black" and another is "white" as if these terms have a measurable meaning is false. That is an attempt to apply modern racial definitions. The skin of people has varying amounts of melanin in it and there is a wide range. Attempts to divide this wide range is racilism. [IMG]http://bestofmichaeljackson.jclondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/evan-ross4.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5054/5524556600_ff24a70cb6.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/actors_films_images/will_smith_shirt_tie.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/pr22168,1139693430,Kosovo-Albaner.jpg?nc[/IMG] By above definitions even though all the persons above have brown skin only some are called "black" that is because the term "black" as used in modern times has racial baggage attached to it about features and hair whereas to call someone "brown" mearly states fact. Somebody might look at the above people and called some of them "sunburt". First of all they don't know what the skin tone they were born with was and secondly it is irrelevant because the people look like this on a daily basis and are dark regardless of why they are dark. When ancient writers called someone black it did not match modern racial concepts. Therefore all of the above persons could be called black by ancient writers. The term "Moor" for example is used loosely. example: St. James the Moor Slayer [IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/britishgrenadier/Saints/St%20James%20the%20Greater/af9755b0.jpg[/IMG] St. Maurice [IMG]http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh117/akhenamen/HISTORICAL%20CULTURES/maurice.jpg[/IMG] ^^^ this shows the varying conception of the European conception of Moor, likewise "black" [/QB][/QUOTE]
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