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Theophile Obenga's "Negro-Egyptian" linguistic phylum
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Asar Imhotep: [QB] With all due respect Dr. Winters, at this point, we have to end this conversation. It is clear you are trying to be deceptive and I can't continue conversations with individuals who are not being honest. As one of the few members on this board who supports some of your work, I would think I earned greater respect from you than this. It is clear that you didn't even read the citations you cherry picked and you were skimming the pages looking for something to challenge instead of reading the whole text and following the method from the beginning like a real scholar does. Dr. Winters: [QUOTE] In Mboli’s discussion of the grammar of Negro-Egyptien classique, or Classical Negro African he peovides the following examples of alleged cognate: ME ntr nw c’est (un) dieu (this a god) Sango nzo ni c’est bon (this is good) Zande ndike nyeki la loi est dure (the law is harsh ) Hausa nagari ne c’est bon (this is good) A cursory examination of these terms clearly shows that they lack consonantal agreement and meaning. They fail to meet the basic standard for comparative linguistics. [/QUOTE]It is clear you didn't read this. You assumed that he was trying to advocate that these were "cognate sets," which they are not. He's showing the morpheme on different words in these respective languages. The cognation deals with the morpheme, not the full words. In this section, Mboli is discussing the nature of the determinatives that developed in Negro-Egyptian and how these determinatives became a complete set of affixes in the pre-classical state of Negro-Egyptian. Here the appearance of these affixes will inexorably lead to an agglutinative morphology where nominal classes are grouped, each being determined by an affix, which corresponds to a certain category of reality. This is clearly a language of classes like what we see in Bantu. [SIDE NOTE: For those interested, I have relatively recently came across some literature which supports Mboli in the case for classifiers in Egyptian. One example is Orly Godwasser's article "A Comparison between Classifier Languages and Classifier Script: The Case of Ancient Egyptian." Those of us in the African school have always known this, which is why we argue Egyptians relation to Bantu. See works by Asar Imhotep, Theophile Obenga and Dr. Mubabinge Bilolo] He then goes on to discuss the process by which these determinants become grammaticalized. He notes that the determining affix derives from a whole word. As a supporting reference, Dr. GJK. Campbell-Dunn also notes this feature of Niger-Congo in general: affixes deriving from whole words. Mboli discusses the word kʷəkʰi, which is a word meaning "person," which can be used to determine many other words. But since it is a generic word itself, it too can also be determined by other words with a wide range of meanings. The classical Negro-Egyptian was thus a language with a morphology both prefixal and suffixal, but with a predominance of suffixes. The existence of two affixes of agent *ŋʲʷə- and *-ŋʲʷə was reconstructed from six languages earlier in the text. Thus, a sentence in classical Negro-Egyptian has the following form: (R1,a1) + (R2,a2) where (R2,a2) is the nominal predicate and (R1,a1) is the word that determines, each word being composed of a root (Rx) and an affix (ax). This morphology of the Bantu-type of course has left some traces, certainly rare, in some of the historical languages, as evidenced by the short series which Dr. Winters misquoted that follows. [QUOTE] M-E : [b]n[/b]Tr [b]n[/b]w « c'est (un) dieu » (littéralement « dieu c'est ») [is (a) god > "god is"] Sango : [b]n[/b]zo [b]n[/b]í « c'est bon » (littéralement « bon c'est ») > « le bon » [what is good > "it is good"] Zandé : [b]n[/b]dike [b]n[/b]yeki « la loi est dure » (littéralement « loi dure ») [the law is hard > "harsh law"] Hausa : [b]n[/b]agŕri [b]n[/b]ē « c'est bon » (littéralement « bon c'est ») > nagarin « le bon ». [what is good > "it is good"; Nagarin > "the good"] [/QUOTE]In these four languages, it is the prefix of agent *ŋʲʷə- which is found on both the substantive (noun) and on the predicate that determines it. He notes that if the constructions are true, then we find this feature fossilized in M-E, Sango and Zande, however they are still active in Hausa where the class of animation (agents) has evolved into the male gender. In other words, Mboli, in the examples above, starting on page 367 to 368, was not trying to argue for "cognates" of the full words above. This is clear in the fact that in the book the n- morphemes are bolded, which he was trying to focus the reader's attention. He was trying to show the fossilization of the n- morpheme in these languages (save Hausa), which he argues derives from a reconstructed *ŋʲʷə- of agent. Dr. Winters clearly didn't read the text and lied to us, again, claiming that he "has read the book including summaries of Mboli's work." It is clear you did not. So at this point, I can no longer keep this discussion up with you because you clearly have a vendetta against the text and you have not read it. Any text that doesn't support your findings or methodology, you dismiss and that is not scholarly. You then concoct arguments which are not even being made or discussed as a diversionary tactic to distract us from the fact that you do not know what you are talking about. We, in the African-Centered school, cannot afford to keep dealing with individuals who are not honest and doing piss-poor scholarship. If one lies about something like this, then who knows what else you have lied about in your works. This is why it is important to always check someone's sources for what the author is really saying. There have been several occasions where you have misquoted, or taken out of context a passage from a source. This is why people question your scholarship, and now I have turned over to that camp of doubters. I wish you well Dr. Winters. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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