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DNATribes North African Region
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]Amun-Ra The Ultimate[/b]: [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]Tukuler[/b]: [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]Amun-Ra The Ultimate[/b]: African people living in the North African countries (usually in the south) are not included in the DNA Tribes database and other DNA research/study databases for that matter. Their samples were just not taken. They were ignored. [b]For example, the Nubian people‎ living in Egypt, the Tibu and Dawada people living in Libya and the [URL=http://underscore][i]Gnawa[/i] people living in Morocco and Algeria[/URL] (among other ethnic groups).[/b] Those people possibly lived *relatively* isolated from other African groups since at least the mid-late Holocene, so they may present some distinctive SNP values different from other black African groups (while sharing distinctive SNP with other African people of course).[/QUOTE]Above. Is Gnawa a typo for Haratin here ? Just a note that Maghrebi Gnawa are descendants of West Africans who came from south of the Sahel and north of the heavily forrested areas since the last few hundred years. Gnawa denotes a non-Berber speaking West African like the Bambara for instance. [/QUOTE]Gnawa is not a typo and they are indigenous to the region. Probably migrate there before any back migration from Western Asia. DNA analysis (and anthropological studies) could help further this more. Haratins are another African ethnic groups indigenous to the Morocco region. It must be noted that both Gnawa and Haratine are names given to them by foreign people. Don't be fooled by people who label any black African presence in North Africa as "sub-Saharan" or even West Africans or Sudanic when in fact it is indigenous to the region. [/QUOTE]I didn't start studying this stuff yesterday to be fooled by Eurocentrics nor Afrocentrics and I keep racially biased polemics out of assessment. They cheapen the worth of writers who use them and are only good for those who preach to the choir, unable to stand academic stringency. Haratin aren't limited to Moroccan. Haratin are at base indigenous Saharans once reduced to sharecroppers by incoming Maghrebi Africans. Gnawa is a Berber word denoting "mute" and its connotation is a foreign non-Berber speaker. Gnawa have songs extolling their forced migration into servitude northward across the Sahara desert. Gnawa and Haratin are non-interchangeable terms. While the one is "foreign" the other is native. I know the differences and have written about the indigenous coastal, pre-Sahara, and Saharan blacks [URL=http://thenile.phpbb-host.com/ftopic413.php](link)[/URL] who were definitely not Gnawa but contributers to modern Berber speakers (Haratin and non-Haratin), Songhai speaking, and Soninke speaking populations of the Sahara and northward today. [/qb][/QUOTE]Fair assessment but I disagree with you. You can't rely on converted people anecdotal oral history. If you listen to the oral history on some African muslim convert you would believe they all spawn directly from Arabia, home of the prophet Muhammad. I think it would be important to have some genetic studies (at least one!!) and some more anthropological studies to clarify the ancient Gnawa origin and identity. Nevertheless, we both agree about the ancient black African presence in North Africa and Morocco. Which was my main point. Whether the Gnawa people are more recent, or not, doesn't matter to make my point. They just prove the need to analyze their DNA and expand the anthropological studies about them, which was another one of my point. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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