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Question on the Pirke de R. Eliezer
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Tukuler: [qb] The Hebrew passage in question does not use the word for dark it uses the word for black. Muslim and Christian views are not Hebrew ones. To know Judaean ideology Hebrew texts are what's relevant. Because other peoples based their religions on ancient Hebrew texts doesn't make these others views legitimate Hebrew tenet. What I mean is Shem is a creation of the ancient Israelites and what later peoples who adopted the character made of him is hardly what the originals made up unless directly borrowed from a Hebrew text. [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]africurious[/b]: [QUOTE]Originally posted by [b]Tukuler[/b]: It's the only one I know of and seemingly written by Palestinians not Babylonians. The "black and beautiful" concept extends from the era of the Song of Songs which is Solomon's up until at least the late medieval times of Europe. The Mishnah clearly delimits colour ranges of Judaeans as midway between that of pale white Germans and dark black Sudanese where it details the laws of leprosy finally deciding all cases to be judged by the intermediate Israelite tone else all Germans be lepers and any Sudani with a light spot/blotch likewise be declared a leper. [/QUOTE]Tx for your response Takruri. This does seem to be the only instance of shem being labeled black (or dark rather) in jewish sources. There are muslim sources and at least one christian source where shem is described this way. I have done some more research on this and will post my findings later. [/QUOTE]It's obvious by the lands allotted to each lineage that its Noahhic progenitor was either light or dark. Look at the Hham lands. What colour are people there? Same for Shem and Yapheth. What colour are the peoples there. I seriously doubt Israels had to wait hundreds of years for Xtian and Muslim views to see that peoples east and south of the Mediterranean were much darker than those north of it. At a certain point academic presumption equals foolishness. But of course it seems everybody knows more about Hebrew concepts than the Hebrews know themselves. I mean come on. Israelites and Judahites looked at Kushites (Sudanese and east/south Arabian) and at Egyptians and somehow never thought of Hham, their mythic progenitor as black until the 4th century CE and only then due to influence of other people? [/qb][/QUOTE]Excellent point. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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